My Ford Mondeo (2003) went wrong within warranty. Ford quoted over £2000 to put it right. They weasled out of paying under warranty by saying that it must have had contaminated fuel, something that I disputed with them and with Ford UK. It got me nowhere. An independent diesel repair workshop advised me to get rid of it, which I did.
I can only echo Screwloose by saying don't buy one unless you have a cast-iron warranty, and even then you may come unstuck.
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You're being a bit unkind lumping the TDi PD system in with common-fail. >>
Why, a totally illogical system, running the HP pumps off a belt driven camshaft, cambelt chanes at 40k intervals, so £1000 + scheduled bills over 120k miles that a chain cam CR does not have. Also rather less refined than CR, lastly VAG are seeing the light and going CR it seems.
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So we have a Honda, five Mazdas, an Audi and a Ford, I also have a Ford that is just coming up to 112,000 miles and is fine.
Though haven't we done this subject to death recently?
The fact is that people with problems gravitate to a site such as this and if you Google the issue this site is top of the list so clearly it is not an issue featured prominenty within other such forums.
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>> You're being a bit unkind lumping the TDi PD system in >> with common-fail. >> Why, a totally illogical system, running the HP pumps off a belt driven camshaft, cambelt chanes at 40k intervals, so £1000 + scheduled bills over 120k miles that a chain cam CR does not have. Also rather less refined than CR, lastly VAG are seeing the light and going CR it seems.
No you're talking of 3 belt changes rather than 2 = £300 over 120K
There's plenty of belt driven common rail engines and if you've ever seen the devastation caused when a chain snaps, you'd prefer a belt anyday
Who says its less refined? Where's the proof? Just because its repeated over and over on here does'nt make it true.
I'd go with a PD engine over common rail anyday and techs that work on both systems on a dailly basis agree with me
Are the Mazda's and the Honda mentioned chain driven?
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No you're talking of 3 belt changes rather than 2 = £300 over 120K
Surely not, you mean VW would only charge £150 for a cambelt change? At least £300 I reckon and would need one at 40k, 80k and 120k miles.
There's plenty of belt driven common rail engines >>
Yes though the belt is not driving high pressure PD pumps and generally has scheduled changes 50% longer than the VAG engines.
>>and if you'veever seen the devastation caused when a chain snaps, you'd prefer a belt anyday
>>
That is like comparing throwing a rod with cam belt failure, a chain is designed to last the life of the engine and generally does, a belt is a service item.
Who says its less refined? Where's the proof? Just because its repeated over and over on here does'nt make it true.
IME the 1.9 PD's are rather unrefined, the 2.0s are a little better though not up with the best by modern standards
Are the Mazda's and the Honda mentioned chain driven?
>>
That is irrelevant, the problems mentioned are not chain or belt related.
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VAG TDI unrefined?
Yesp. I drove over 40k in 2 years in an A4TDI. Noisy/rough at low speeds. Grated on me.
Others I tried (A3/VW) were as bad.
PSA HDI and Toyota are MUCH smoother at low revs.
madf
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I had a Pug 406 110 Hdi which had the low pressure pump replaced around 45k miles. The sympton was no start and blowing a fuse. The garage replaced the pump and also the fan controller which had caught fire, so I am not sure which caused the fuse blowing. It seemed a coincidence that both failed at the same time. At 90k miles the high pressure pump started leaking, I was quoted £1k to fit so I got rid of the car.
After the positive comments on this site about VAG diesels, bought a Audi A4 2.0 Tdi multitronic. The gearbox is incredibly smooth and keeps the engine around its peak torque output. It also completely removes the diesel gruffness and all or nothing torque characteristics I experienced on a loan A3 manual with the same engine. I find the A4 is an extremely smooth, quiet refined car and the 2.0 Tdi engine gives more than enough power.
However I have noticed a few 2.0Tdi engines which sound very loud from the outside and many other quiet ones.
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Perhaps I'd better qualify my rather imprecise statement as relating specifically to the failure rate/disaster potential of the different systems; not matters of refinement, fuel economy or servicing costs.
VW have been threatening to do a CR system for quite a while. So..... let's see; that's a highly-complex, Euro 4 compliant, CR with the critical components doubtless sourced from Indonesia/Malaysia/Tunisia/Mexico/Brazil and all half-assembled by VW..... Mmmmm - yes please! Fixing that'll be a very nice little profit-earner.
[How much is a nice condo in Florida...?]
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I thought all the V6 VW diesels were common rail anyway, only the 4 cylinder lumps that were PD?
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Thanks for the responses gents, but youre right, this subject has been discussed many many times on here. Im not too concerned about chain cam vs belt. Nor am i interested in which design is the smoothest. That has indeed been discussed before.
What i want to get a grip on is, 'who has actually experienced a CR fuel system failure, what car, what mileage, what cost'. Thats all im trying to establish.
Five Mazda 6's in a very short space of time is the kind of stuff we all need to mindfull of and thats the kind of valuable input i was hoping for.
The stuff about belt vs chain is all good stuff but not what im aiming for.
Is this a massive problem brewing for all the diesel drivers....or is it a few isolated cases being talked about rather alot and thats making us think the problem is far more widespread than it actually is?
More posts like the first four or five are the aim of this thread, so if youve had it happen to you i would very much appreciate your comments.
At the moment there doesnt seem to be all that many people who have experienced CR failure, so my next car may not after all have to be a Subaru Lagacy! And that is a positive message.
Cheers Trev
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Cheddar 3-2=1, 1 x £300 = £300
I'll take a belt driven engine anyday, my B-I-Ls 22K mile corsa 3pot has had 2 chain and tensioner sets under warranty already at 27 months old. My fathers chain driven Sierra snapped its chain at 24K miles, chains last the life of the engine or vice versa
My PD 1.9 is fine, although I've never driven a French car ever ;O)
You mentioned chains and belts in the first place,not me.
PD engines cope with miss-fueling better than common rail, its a fact ask a tech.
VAG V6's use common rail only because there is'nt room for the cam driven PD injectors between the two banks of cylinders.
Ask any specialist which is the more reliable of the two VAG engines and they will tell you the PDs by far.
Its funny but there are two current threads on here plenty of people are singing the praises of the Fabia VRS that has a 1.9 PD engine under the bonnet
Buy the car you want I say, lifes too short
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Just look at the Transit Owners Club site for problems, they are real.
Modern high pressure diesels are just not fit and forget, do your sums before buying ,not after.
Fine if on a lease- but if you are paying then - you need some mighty mpg to make them pay.
and the noise?, and smell?
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Cheddar 3-2=1, 1 x £300 = £300
9/10
The right answer to the wrong sum, £300 per change x 3 changes (at 40k, 80k and 120k miles) = £900 (at least).
You mentioned chains and belts in the first place,not me.
Yes I did to say that PD is a totally illogical system, running the HP pumps off a belt driven camshaft.
I also said it is irrelevant that the Mazda's and the Honda mentioned are chain driven because that relevant point is that they are CR not PD rather than chain not belt.
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oh boy....my thread has been hijacked
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"when my 03 plate HDI is going to trash its fuel system and leave me with a bill for £2500. "
Wife's W reg Xantia HDi has now done 95k and is still very much on song. Engine not touched so far except for new cambelt at about 72k (even though interval is supposed to be 100k on the grounds that we were unlikely to keep it until it had done 150k so might as well have its one cambelt change done early and be safe rather than sorry - £150 at our favourite local independent- and that's a pretty good deal I reckon)
--
Phil
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Based on experience of cars owned by friends and family, I wouldn't buy a CR diesel unless it had significant warranty cover remaining. I'm sure a lot of them run to high mileages without problem, and that they are getting better all the time, but there are too many horror stories and several from owners that I could be 99.9% sure did not misfuel or otherwise abuse the car. I'd expect to run the risk of £2k+ repair bills on an exotic sports car, not a diesel runabout. When the technology has matured, I'll look at it again.
I'm no VW fan, but in fairness the fuel systems on the VAG PD's in our family (5 in total ranging from 25k to 120k miles and 2 to 5 years old have never given a day's trouble apart from MAF sensors going pop on four of them. They have other reliability issues, particularly one of them (a 2002 Passat which has been chronically troublesome), but the fuel systems don't seem to go wrong. Not as refined as CR obviously, but the performance and economy are spectacular. 50-60 mpg from 130 bhp. Most modern common rails can't get within 10 mpg of that.
Cheers
DP
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02 Synergie HDI head gasket at 43k (engine out - £1000 paid by Warranty Direct).
Fuel sytem still OK, though (now 55k).
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They're still too complex and "on the edge" to ever want to own one that wasn't covered by a solid warranty though. And then there's the Euro 4 issues.....
Hi Screwfix
You are obviously having some problems yourself with complexities - I detect your problem is more with the electronics that the actual fuel delivery side. Think of it like this common rail is dragging the car diesel into line with petrol fuel injection ie controlled by electronics instead of fixed and inflexible inline pumps etc. The benefits are quite stupendus since the diesel is 40%plus more efficient that a petrol engine to start with and now with better control will achieve more economy and reliability as they grow.
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