My Avensis (02) has fallen victim of a known oil consumption issue. No fuss, no argument. I get the best part of a new engine and catalytic converter. Car is best part of five years old but I feel as valued/important as if I spent £20K yesterday. So I tell people and they are impressed. Not the first time Toyota have told me they will foot the bill for a major repair because 'it shouldn't have happened'.
Sort of restores your faith.
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As avant says - they are obviously looking at your problem from a long term perspective and I would imagine have almost guaranteed you buying another Toyota when the time comes, keeping the money in their pocket and out of another makers.
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BMW Managed a respectable 3.3 billion euros last year and are aiming for 4 billion eorus this year. They aren't Japanese though.
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BMW - another company that make well engineered cars that people want.
Unfortunately they are going through a bit of a sales dip at the moment (down 5%) although this will not impact earnings and was expected apparently.
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I would say my local dealer has come on leaps and bounds over the past few years. Took my Avensis in for a service today and I had good service-well you should do, you pay for it. But little extras like a nail in the tyre were repaired for free, and a couple of warranty issues took no more than me saying the problem and the parts are on order.
I remember years ago arguing with my Audi dealer over the poor suspension of my A2, and kept getting turned away without them even looking until the 3rd time and to keep me quiet they looked and found the pre-delivery packing still in place in the front suspension. No wonder I won't touch Audi anymore!
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>>until the 3rd time and to keep me quiet they looked and found the pre-delivery packing still in place in the front suspension. No wonder I won't touch Audi anymore!<<
That's happening with Golf's now as well.
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>>until the 3rd time and to keep me quiet they looked and found the pre-delivery packing still in place in the front suspension. No wonder I won't touch Audi anymore!<< That's happening with Golf's now as well.
Have you highlighted the wrong bit here? This is an example of rubbish customer service -- don't think you can pin this particular example on anyone else. I might be willing to believe that standards of service have gone downhill at brand X, but rank dishonesty surely can't be a corporate decision?
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That's happening with Golf's now as well.>>
Failure to remove the delivery blocks isn't model or even brand specific, it's a PDI and subsequent diagnosis failure at the dealer which could and has happened with any number of manufacturers.
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< > Failure to remove the delivery blocks isn't model or even brand specific, it's a PDI and subsequent diagnosis failure at the dealer which could and has happened with any number of manufacturers.
But when involving the bods at head office and they refuse to compensate for the wrong-doings of their dealerships, how can you not blame the brand as a whole?
We are all human and we all make mistakes, but when thoses mistakes invole numerous trips to the dealership, poor service from them and then when you complain to the manufacturer direct and they dismiss your concerns, why should you continue to support the brand?
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Runboy my reply was actually directed at the statement "That's happening with Golf's now as well" which, given that the problem you had wasn't a model or brand design fault, didn't seem to make any sense.
I totally agree that the dealer CS you received was terrible and if it were me I would have complained bitterly, sought a goodwill gesture from the dealer himself, proportionate to any loss I'd suffered and taken my business elsewhere. Nobody need support any brand when they don't want to, but given that Audi UK delivered the car in perfect condition, as ordered and the fault was solely caused by the dealer's tech not following Audi's PDI rules, compounded by poor CS, I can't see on what basis I'd be seeking recompense from Audi UK or casting aspersions on the brand per se. Many brand forums have a thread with good and bad dealers because their service and competence vary widely and have no bearing on the brand.
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BMW Managed a respectable 3.3 billion euros last year and are aiming for 4 billion eorus this year. They aren't Japanese though.
This seems to be a common attitude on this forum -- and totally without foundation.
It has nothing to do with Japanese or not -- if a car company is successful, and produces cars people want with healthy profits, fair play to them -- problem is that far too many European/US makes are struggling and cutting corners in engineering as a result. BMW are not one of them.
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I totally second jase1 comment. People need to be careful before lumping manufacturers from one base into the same basket. Nissan are an example in the east where things have not been all rosy. Bentley are an example in the west where car sales are doing very nicely.
Sure, you have to foster the brand image and work hard to maintain it otherwise you begin to suffer along with the likes of VW and Mercedes. The odd 'we'll bend over backwards' by a dealer does not really have anything to do with it. Every dealer is capable of this. Three out of four Alfa dealers that I have done business with, I would recommend and I can say the same for my local Ford dealer.
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>>... think they must have a more understanding type of institutional shareholder in Japan. Too many Western companies (especially those that are US-owned) look for short-term profits to satisfy calls for 'dividends now'. ..
in reply to avant:
i may be wrong, but i was under the impression that since the 90's, american companies (at least the major ones within the dow, s&p 500, and nasdaq) had turned away from the focus on dividends, and had been cutting back on dividend yields, and were instead aiming to attract investors through potential growth of the company.
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>>>Three out of four Alfa dealers that I have done business with, I would recommend and I can say the same >>>for my local Ford dealer.
Where do you live, Red Baron? You must be a lucky chap!
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>Three out of four Alfa dealers that I have done business with, I would recommend
One is Paris, One in Milan and the other in Austria. The forth he wont recommend is 10 miles away.
------------------------------
TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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>>Failure to remove the delivery blocks isn't model or even brand specific, it's a PDI and subsequent diagnosis failure at the dealer which could and has happened with any number of manufacturers.<<
Of course it is the dealers but at the end the day the manufacturers are responsible for the dealers.
The dealer is the manufacturers contact with the paying public - get this wrong and you lose sales.
One of the big selling points of using a dealer is that they are all 'brand' trained - so at the end of the day it reflects on the maker.
I think I have mentioned previously that Toyota place great emphasis on the dealers at a corporate strategic level.
I am not saying other makers don't do this but I have never seen it in their corporate strategy.
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There was a large article in Stern (German news magazine) last year, I think, about Toyota. It said that if an assembly line worker identifies a fault coming through in the cars, the whole production is stopped until that fault is corrected. Quality control is considered of the highest importance.
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>>One of the big selling points of using a dealer is that they are all 'brand' trained
Yes, if you are lucky, each mechanic probably gets 1 day of factory or factory run training. The quality of this "training" varies from the barely worthwhile new model introduction courses where no-one knows what any of the problems are, to the occaisonally excellent course run by someone who has fixed some tricky faults and wants to pass on his experience.
If you begin with a mechanic with the right attitude, he will largely train himself, but no amount of factory training can help a dullard or a bonus monkey.
IME, factory trained is just some marketing rubbish to keep the customer happy and reaching for his wallet.
Number_Cruncher
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>>If you begin with a mechanic with the right attitude, he will largely train himself, but no amount of factory training can help a dullard or a bonus monkey.<<
I totally agree with you numbercruncher but I think it is the manufacturers repsonsibility to ensure they do not have those people working on our cars (dullards and monkeys) - we are promised years of motoring pleasure and top level service from the maker when we sign that cheque - they should deliver. I think the more customer focused companies ensure this happens better than most and they subsequently get repeat business and big profits. (I am simplifying the process somewhat but I think you get the gist of what I am saying).
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From the perspective of a customer signing a large cheque, I can agree wih your ideal perspective. Mechanics should be well trained and motivated, but, in practice, I know that many garages are struggling to find good mechanics who will work for what the garages are prepared to pay them.
In the majority of cases, anyone who is any good gets out of the motor trade at the earliest opportunity.
Number_Cruncher
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Now you mention it my company does employ alot of ex motor mechanics as fitters etc - so I guess your right.
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>>Many brand forums have a thread with good and bad dealers because their service and competence vary widely and have no bearing on the brand.<<
But surely it does have a bearing on the brand - they are as much of the brand as the car itself - that's why the maker insists on having the workshops equiped and furnised with all the right equipment. The dealers have to comply with the standard brand decor etc, only sell the brand's finance and spare parts etc. If they do not comply they lose the right to sell the cars. They are as much of the brand as anything else. They are inspected by the brand and the brand employs people to go round and help them with technical issues. They also get paid by the brand when they sell cars and are wired into the brands ordering/manufacturing system to process orders.
I struggle to see how they cannot have a bearing on the brand.
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>>>One is Paris, One in Milan and the other in Austria. The forth he wont recommend is 10 miles away.
10 miles away from where?
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>>Many brand forums have a thread with good and bad dealers because their service and competence vary widely and have no bearing on the brand.<<
Type s has it in one.
To the customer, the dealer represents the brand. Full stop.
So a bad dealer = bad news for the brand..
If cars came like TVs.. then I would agree. But cars are not TVs.. they sometimes have iritating faults and an incompetent dealer who can't solve them is a very bad advert for the brand.
Frankly, some of the dealerships I have had experience of would be no good even at selling and servicing TVs...
My experiences: little required as they have been : of Toyota is that the service and parts organisation are pleasant polite and professional. Ditto BMW.
My experiences of Peugeot have been mixed, of Fiat dreadful, of Ford mixed, of Rover pretty bad, of Volvo mixed, of Mercedes mixed, of VAG mixed...
Says it all. Those impressions make up my impressions of the brands...
madf
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Just in support of the dealer having a bearing on the branding, below is an extract from the Lexus Customer Charter (Lexus.co.uk).
Basically it says if you have any problem with Lexus cars or service you contact the dealer (Lexus Centre in Lexus speak) and I think the rest is self explanatory.
"The complaint, preferably in writing, should be addressed to The Customer Relations Executive, at the Lexus Centre.
The Customer Relations Executive acts as a point of reference for customers who require assistance or advice. They have access to every department within Lexus (GB) Ltd and are therefore best placed to provide a quick response to problems or concerns as they arise. "
It goes on to describe how problems can be escalated but I think the above sums it up nicely - Lexus (and other makes) clearly see the dealer as having a huge bearing on the brand.
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