I've just gone and done the one thing I swore I would never, ever do. Buy a car for my children. Well, the deed is done and a 1995 Citroen AX Dimension is sitting on the drive, an Ebay special bought unseen that's much better than I expected. There it is, waiting for my lucky children (brother and sister) to fire it up and deploy its mighty 35 bhp on independent journeys of their own, given that they pass their imminent Tests.
I hope that this post will generate a few dos and don'ts, maybe a list of things that Dad expects (like putting petrol in it and keeping it clean). Should I hold the keys and ask for a deposit every time it's used? Do I keep a diary to book its use? Or, will the whole sharing thing just never work and I'll have to buy a car for each child? I'll add that boy of 17 and girl of 20 appear to get on quite well and have long passed the stage of sneering at one another and wanting to set fire to each others bedrooms.
Over to you ...
Hawkeye
-----------------------------
Stranger in a strange land
|
|
How, with whom, and at what cost do you intentd to insure the vehicle. Regards Peter
|
How, with whom, and at what cost do you intentd to insure the vehicle.
At present I'm the only driver insured. The first child to pass their test will then become the main driver on TPF&T only with me as a named driver. I shall seek advice when child 2 passes. I'm insured with Fortis through the Post Office (BISL).
Scary thoughts about speeding tickets and driving under the influence ..... Hadn't thought of that. Ulp!
Hawkeye
-----------------------------
Stranger in a strange land
|
|
|
|
If a car had ever been bought for my brother and I (no chance!) the rule would have been simple: the siblings work out the running costs between themselves, and if there's strife, the car goes.
The other rule would undoubtedly be that if a speeding ticket, summons or (above all) drink driving charge ever appeared, that'd be the end of the car.
My thoughts are, let it run awhile and see how the usage works out. If its roughly 50/50, then they should pay running costs from a kitty they both contribute to. They can agree among themselves how to decide who gets first shout on using the car, e.g. week on/week off or turn and turn about.
If one is using it more, a mileage log seems equitable. Then, the person who makes less use of it should get first shout on the occasions when they do need it. And it makes sense that college/work/family duties get precedence over other trips.
Anyway, the novelty of having their own wheels will be such that they'll do anything not to go back on the bus. I'd have given my left arm at 17 to get my father's old VW bus (yes, even chauffered my younger brother and his mates!) but he sold it instead...
|
"Anyway, the novelty of having their own wheels will be such that they'll do anything not to go back on the bus."
My 16 year old daughter used to lay face down on the back seat of her 18 year old sisters' Estelle to avoid being seen, and refused point blank to share it when she became 17.
She's getting married soon, I'm thinking wedding car.
|
|
|
|
|
A slightly differesnt take on things, but when I was 17 my sister used to let me use her 950cc Fiesta Mk1 - she used to get ferried around by her boyfriend so only used it during the week to and from work. I had to put all the fuel I used in and in addition I had to pay 8p per mile to her as a running cost - maybe that would be the way to go with your kids!!
|
Your sister knows how to operate. A boyfriend daft enough to ferry her around, and a residual income from a car she's saving money on by not using....
: )
|
One of them will soon work out the fine balance of running on just enough fuel to get them home, leaving the other to fill it up before they can go anywhere.
Brave, very brave...
|
"My 16 year old daughter used to lay face down on the back seat of her 18 year old sisters' Estelle to avoid being seen, and refused point blank to share it when she became 17."
In the absence of the aforementioned VW Bus, I'd have gladly accepted an Estelle at 17 either! Or a Trabant. Or anything to get me out of the queue for the No. 8, to be honest...
The mileage charge sounds like a good idea, too.
|
|
|
|
I am assuming your daughter is down as the main driver and son as a named driver? But if they drive it equally will that be okay for the policy? I bet it's cost a fair bit to insure. Stepson got his first car (a Panda 4x4 Sisley) when 18 and the insurance was about £1400 for third party! And that was over two years ago now.
|
If either of your children work they will buy their own car.
It also depends on the maturity of the children/grownups. Most females at 20 are much more mature than males at 17. Your daughter may therefore well see the car as a treat and be grateful to be given the opurtunity to drive. Your son may think it is his god given right to use the car whenever and for whatever he wants.
I am 26 but and my dad bought a car for me to drive in and my sister to learn to drive in. that was in 2002 when I had no money to buy a car myself, but needed one to get to work in. As things have transpired I had more or less sole use of the car because my sister did not really like learning to drive in the car. My sister has just passed her test this september and is now looking to drive anything with 4 wheels. It had prevously been put to me that when my sister had passed her test we would need to share the car, which to me is the horrors of horrors.
I intially thought the solution is when I have got a job I will get a new car pronto and my sister can have the one bought for us. Luckly my sister is not using the car at present since she is off at uni, but come christmas she will want to use it. My parents reaction is that my sister can get given this car, whilst helping me pay for a new car. I have not told my parents this, but I feel this is grossly unfair, not to me but my sister. The car I am using was bought for £3,000 about 4.5 years ago and I have had sole benifit of it. At a dealer the car will now be worth about £1,000 (it's a 1.2 P reg Clio RL Oasis). It feels unfair that over the last 4.5 years I have had £2000 spent in depreciation on me, and now get £1000 to help me buy my own car. My sister on the other hand only gets a car worth about £1,000. (but then again don't know what the future will bring. The big money will come when my parents help for house deposits)
A much better solution would be for me to get given the car and then for my parents to give my sister £3,000 to spend on a new car. This however may not go down that well since my parents will have to spend £3000 on me and my sister, insted of the £1,000 orginally planned. The fairest way to resolved this is for may parents to give my sister £2000 and make me buy my car back from them for £1,000. The net cost to them would then be £1,000, the same as the orginal plan, where my sister kept the old car and my parents help me buy a new car.
What ever happens car wise in my family one thing is certain, I will speak to my sister first rather than
For further investergation of parental fairness we could start with pocket money or university tuition fees or at what age your children move out of you house if they had been paying you below market rent? - The disparties between siblings can run to 10's of thoses of pounds. I don't think I can answer your question in financial terms what would be fair. Children will always find a way to say the other sibling has recieved more money then they have! - As said before dress it up so they think you'r doing them a favor.
The hint is that you should create rules that help your children progress as individuals. You are their parent after all. How can you use this situation to help them learn responsibily and the fact you are doing them a favor by buying them a car?
For example your reaction to speeding offences will be diffrent if you belive your children should take resoponsibility for themselves as opposed to seeing them using the car you bought Irisponsibly? That is would you be willing to see them as equals but let them take the rap when that NIP falls through the door and if they get banned from driving, share you simpathies with them OR will you ban them from using the car yet pay the fine and incure the points? Your version of fairness will depend on how you feel at the time.
Bear in mind always be a good parent and take the course of action which will enable your children to grow, as opposed helping you let off steam. The more moralistic and less financial the considerations the less guidence someone can give you - and financial guidence is a minefield in itself!
-Sorry for V. long post.
|
I am the youngest of 5 kids and from when the oldest passed the test, my dad supplied a car for them to use (Mark 1 Escort to start with).
The rules were simple, there was a logbook in the car and you marked up the mileage you did and got charged 10p a mile (was always so unfair if the mileometer clicked over a new digit within yards of the start of your journey).
Any petrol you put in the car, you also maked up on the logbook. At the end of the week / month then the logbook was all calculated out and we paid any monies due. Dad then put this ino a kitty for running costs, tax etc.
I know that in no way did it cover the costs of the car but it did give us all good experience in the costs involved in running a car.
|
I think insurance may well be your biggest problem. When daughter got her own car it was £600 with me as second driver (now down to £400 ish). We tried to add her brother (18) on her car - they wanted £3,000 yes, £3,000! Presently he drives my second car as named driver, which costs £1,400 p.a. The insurance companies do not like having two youngsters on the insurance.
The other problem I foresee is that my son drives with his fingers crossed that he might have enough fuel to actually get home, whereas daughter runs her car on the basis she keeps about half a tank available. The logbook sounds a good idea - as long as both will actually use it.
|
The first child to drive the vehicle will, from then on, more than likely regard it as his or her's car.
If their brother or sister wishes to use the car at any time then, more than likely, all hell will break out....:-)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
|
|
|
|
running on just enough fuel to get them home, leaving the other to fill it up before they can go anywhere.
This used to happen to me, a mate would borrow my car and leave it empty.
Well a switched resistor in the fuel sender lead was all it needed to set him straight. I would park up and flick the switch (hidden under dashboard) and hey presto a quater of a tank of fuel 'dissapeared'.
Always got some put in then. Hehheh
|
hey presto a quater of a tank of fuel 'dissapeared'. Always got some put in then. Hehheh
Made me laugh. Absolute genius!
Hawkeye
-----------------------------
Stranger in a strange land
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oh, dear, Hawkeye. I assume you are familiar with the acronym 'KIPPERS'. I can tell you, from experience, that this is a great way to 'erode retirement savings'. Good luck! ;-)
|
|
|
Thanks all for your thoughts and opinions, especially mk124.
I've no idea what the acronym KIPPERS means, please enlighten me. I would guess that the words Kids, Parents and Penury might feature in it.
I like the idea of a logbook and mileage especially as son is being given an allowance for attending college, and qualifies for a bus pass which can be converted into real money if he chooses to arrive in his "own" car.
Yesterday, after a difficult driving lesson, son has had an attack of the vapours and claims he is not bright enough to ever pass his test. Time for a fatherly arm round the shoulder or a swift slap? I'm currently using the car as a run-around so the handbrake cable doesn't sieze and the battery doesn't go flat through lack of use. When Mrs H was asked if she wanted to be put on the insurance, she went all sniffy and said "I've done AXs, thank you very much". Spoilt, if you ask me ...
Hawkeye
-----------------------------
Stranger in a strange land
|
KIPPERS
Kids In Parents' Pockets Eroding Retirement Savings
|
Ta, DD.
Hawkeye
-----------------------------
Stranger in a strange land
|
There's also those who are members of Club Ski (Spending Kids's Inheritance).
A variation is backronyms such as Spam (Stupid Pointless Annoying Messages) and Wait, Wait, Wait (World Wide Web).
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
|
|
And how much was the Insurance for the car and drivers. Regards Peter
|
Insured my 17 yo daughter as only driver of Fiesta 1.1 on provisional licence for no more than £800 - was nearer £700 IIRC. Sons are definitely more expensive.
My spoilt ones never had to pay much towards the running costs - they had little or no income so a bit pointless really. They never had to share a car - I can't see that would have ever worked. Daughter's boyfriend is at college in Winchester and having just passed his test is sharing with his sis in Wokingham. This has only been going a week but already there are problems. I don't see it working.
|
|
|
|
