pp - thanks.
Nassey - that is what we all thought later and it would have been his word against my friends. If it was me, I would have called his bluff. However, and on the other hand, I too would have been inclined to apologise. But we did all think the guy was a fool.
The number of times I see people using mobiles, reading the map, reading paers in moving traffic and trying to drive.
100's of times I've seen people using the mobile and lorry drivers trying to negotiate a roundabout and phone to the ear. The phones users are easily spotted as they are not keeping up with the traffic
Thanks
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www.rjerrard.co.uk/law/articles/civilianpowersofar...l
is worth a look for those interested in recent changes in the law regarding citizen's power of arrest.
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Thanks Ashok,
But as the other guy said, the bike did not have an officialy calibrated speedo and his word against friends.
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Had your friend been behaving really badly, had the cop been real, you would have got about another mile down the road before the transit van full of the thug shift stopped you and dragged you out.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Had your friend been behaving really badly, had the cop been real, you would have got about another mile down the road before the transit van full of the thug shift stopped you and dragged you out. ------------------------------ TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
My friend was polite. It would have been interesting to find out what the so-called cop could have done if my friend had insited to leave him alone and he would call the cops the next time th so-called cop on the bike harassed him. My friends car is totally road leagal and he was driving fast be paying attention to his driving.
Anyone every heard about anything like this before, ie not a chav drinving a suspect car, but someone dress in causal wear, nice new car, a bit fast but paying full attention to his his driving and remain polite when asked ' police type questions by a civi - it was only on the second stop the so-called cop introd self as cop, but we have our doubts.
also been chaecking the web, and it's higly unlikely the so-called offf suty/jobs worht could have done anything.
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That's if they weren't in the said van at the back of some drinking hole enjoying a pint. Mods don't remove this. I know. I used to serve them.
MD
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Martin,
20 years ago or 25?
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Martin, 20 years ago or 25?
Nearer 27 years ago I fancy. Should I ask, "why you ask?"
VBR............................................MD.
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things have changed a bit
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things have changed a bit
Wrong, if that reply was to me.
The only difference it seems is that one is now called Mate and not Sir and from some bod who cannot, or cannot be bothered to do his tie, or his top button up. Cos they're getting fatter and I hear that 'they' are about to relax some of the more strenuous tests for admission into the boys in the volvo brigade.
Ah! well.............MD.
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Sounds most unlikely that it was a real cop...... although there have been the odd one or two who have been over zealous and do stupid things off duty. Usually though they are young and have joined for the wrong reasons i.e a power trip.
Would be very rare if not unheard oft that a more mature officer would do that, even if they were new to policing.
Don't suppose you copped a registration number? It could be easily checked.
If it was a police officer there is a very strict discipline code that they have to adhere to which he would have fallen foul of.
Even if on duty, you have to be in uniform to stop a motor vehicle on a road...... no uniform, no power to require someone to stop ....... although debatable if you were already stopped for a light and were prevented from driving on... the above advice is accurate about the speedo calibration......and if calibrated equipment is not used you'd need the evidence of two officers, so that they can corroborate each other.
If you think about it, any off-duty cop willing to 'get involved' in something as minor as you've described would be busy all day wouldn't they....their supervisors (necessary to supervise their written reports) wouldn't have it and the criminal justice unit certainly wouldn't process the paperwork, let alone the CPS prosecuting it.
I think you've been had over by Walter Mitty.
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I know of someone who got off a speeding offence (maybe 10 years ago) because the officer was not wearing full uniform - he didn't have his cap on.
The person was speeding and was stopped by police. But got off on this technicality, plus they got everyone out of the car and searched them.
I assume the law's loopholes tightened now.
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yes......... the 'uniform' only has to be recognisable to the avearge person as being that of a police officer
powers to search people have gone the other way i.e. to the benefit of the individual... there must be 'reasonable grounds' and specific object, individual entitled to copy of form etc
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Thanks all
Looks like a 50/s0 he was not a real cop.
What makes me laugh is the intially response by my friend re the 30mph question and my friend calmy replied, 'not to worry friend' closed his window and speed off again :)
I would have taken the so-called cops nuber but when he stoped us at the lights, his bike a good 20 feet in from of our car and at an approx 25' angle, we felt he was a cop.
He was at least 55, spoke clealry, softly and no real accent. The ID had no metal badge. I was inclined to ask to closer insepct but did not want to worry my friend or possibly get him into trouble.
the man on the bike also promised to charge my friend as he was to follow him for a few miles and if my friend broke the 30mph, he would book him. But after a few seconds he diappeared.
50/50 he was fake - motorbike, about 350cc, dark clour, bit like the old BSA - the man was wearing black waterproof gear, dark blue and a bit of white in his helmet - wore glasses and tash. He remided me of (just a little bit) the bus inspector on the tv show from years ago 'Om The Buses'!
Thanks you all!!
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He remided me of (just a little bit) the bus inspector on the tv show fromyears ago 'Om The Buses'!
BLAKEY! get that bus out!
MD
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He remided me of (just a little bit) the bus inspector on the tv show from >> years ago 'Om The Buses'! >> BLAKEY! get that bus out!
I hate you butler
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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>>I hate you butler
As in all crimes, the butler did it!
--
Roger
I read frequently, but only post when I have something useful to say.
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>>but most vehicles travel between 35/50 mph there.>>
No excuse.
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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next time your mate sees him on this road tell him to get out of his car and kick the bike over this will result in
(A) he will get punched
(B) he will get arrested
(C) it should be a good wheeze
please report back if he takes my advice
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next time your mate sees him on this road tell him to get out of his car and kick the bike over this will result in (A) he will get punched (B) he will get arrested (C) it should be a good wheeze please report back if he takes my advice
Thanks, but no thanks.
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Ok the. 'Off duty cop' sees an apalling piece of driving, remember people only tell you the bits that suit their purpose.
1. Actually you ar never really 'off duty' you are just not at work. Police Regulations can be evoked whether you are at work or not. You join the job you sell your soul!
2. The 'off duty' cop felt that on this occasion the driver should be spoken to and as he was in a position to do so he would. Of course he would not have the power to stop.
3.Whilst he would not have the power to report for speeding at that time nevertheless he thought the threat of doing so would have an impact which it did. Quite sobering to think that people who perform out of the view of uniformed police are still being watched.
4.Single person and vulnerable on a motorcycle challenges a car with three occupants.
Perhaps he should be given some praise!
Just trying to look at the bigger picture for those who are quick to condem.
--
Fullchat
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I'm inclined to agree with you Fullchat. You made some good points, a couple of which I can relate to past experiences.
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Re the challange by this so-called chap, don't think so.
It was braod day light, CCTV everywhere, loads of people in cars and bikes. Frien'ds car, an Audi A4, FSi I think on a 56 plate. Friend in smart causal gear and looks like a bank worker, but in a fact Care Manager for the local Social Services. Me and my our 2 friends, all very smartly dressed and groomed. No load music, no smoking, no flash strips on cars or blacked out windows. Us three did not utter a word.
Re the 'single person vulnerable on....' when our friend passed hime at 45-ish, the man on the bike was defo 35+ mph.
My friend is 'black' West Indian and the other two gentlemen are asian as well as me and all around the 30 mark other than the driver who is a bit younger.
A polite response in a nice tone was given be friend. Friend was brave enough to pull down the window the second time as the so-called cop never indicated intially he was a cop, could have easily been a car jacker!
In conclusion, my friend acted bravely as well as we did as the man on the bike could have easily been a nutter or car jacker and car jacking has be known in our city.
<<<<<<<<<< >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
There were motor bikes and cars weaving in and out of traffic left right and centre. We all felt that he stopped us intially just to feel important and the fact he was over taken safely when he was doing 35/40 in a 30 zone.
Re giving the so-called cop 'praise' - don't think so as my friend was not reckless and then so-called cop, if he was HALF sensible should have waved his warrant card intially as everyone has heard stories re fake cops. If it had been night time, we would have told our friend to drive on and tried to get away from this ordinary looking male on a motor bike and possibly caused an accident because of this fool.
Coming to think of it (must admit I could not and would not know what a real warrant card loked like) the card did not have a metal badge and even if it did, that is no gurantee the man was a genuine cop, or may be even retired and re-living the good old days!
If he was sensible, I'm certain that all will agree, the so-called cop would have let it be known he was a cop, but off duty!
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>>but most vehicles travel between 35/50 mph there.>> No excuse. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
READ MY ORGINAL MESSAGE, MATE.
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>>READ MY ORGINAL MESSAGE, MATE.>>
I did and it's taken from your original message. You openly admit that the speed limit was being exceeded prior to this point by your friend.
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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YES: I know that my friend was breaking the law, but so was the cop and the ones we see every day in marked cars breaking the 30 limit and undertaking cars without their blue lights on. Does that mean that my friend could stop a marked police car and arrest the,m?
Answering that bit, the "off duty cop" would have a defence in law that in exceeding the speed limit that he was doing it for a "Policing Purpose". If you want to start arresting people make sure that you comply with the SOCAP conditions on a Citizen or you could find yourself in a whole heap of trouble including the painful variety. SOCAP has got rid of the old Arrestable Offences and also Conditional Offences conferred under PACE but only for Police Officers (real ones not PCSOs and VOSA staff), basically Police Officers can arrest for any offence now (including speeding) if certain conditions are not met including the awful use of the word "disappear" in the Act. But even El Presedente Blair can;t get rid of Common Law arrest powers. In my opinion if he was areal cop he was a mug and put himself in a very vulnerable position both legally and physically. As to the old chesnut of having to wear a cap/hat/helmet that's a load of old guff.
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My cap is all squashed up in the bottom of my bag and has been so for about six-seven years. Never wear a tie because body armour makes it stick right in your throat, nor do I except any member of my shift to do so!
Having said that, if you can't recognise me as a Police Officer, you need a white stick.
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My cap is all squashed up in the bottom of my bag and has been so for about six-seven years. Never wear a tie because body armour makes it stick right in your throat, nor do I except any member of my shift to do so! Having said that, if you can't recognise me as a Police Officer, you need a white stick.
In that case my friend, if your statement is to be believed, you not onlu putting yourself at risk, but risking the lives of your colleauges and public.
Most people don't take it to kindly if that are told by a 'civi' that they are speeding and being pulled up on an ordinary bike and then the person not intially declaring he/she is a police officer.
What happened to my friend and us today is very unusal and rest assured if the car was a banger and full of thugs, their respone would of been @@@@@@@@@@ and on your bike or worse. Trust me, if the 'thugs car had been road legal as well as the driver, the police could not have done anyhting and you know that!
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What are you talking about!! I'm not quite sure how not wearing a tie puts my collegues at risk. If you can't see the big word 'Police' written across my body armour, plus the bright yellow jacket, with the big word 'Police' written on it, plus the big badges on my shoulders and attached to the front of my body armour, you need a white stick!!
Not wearing a hat, does not mean you can get off a ticket!
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"It was a built up area, one way street, 3 lanes with cars parked in one lane. From the light, my friend over took a motorbike. The man on the bike was do over 35 - 40 max and the friend was touching 45-50."
So what exactly are you complaining about?
Why did your friend overtake a motorbike doing 40 in a 30 limit?
Why did your friend do 50 in a 30 limit?
So what if it was an off duty policeman?
So what if it was a local nutter?
What does it matter that you were wearing suits and looking like bankers (but are social workers?)
Does his colour make a difference?
Does your colour make a difference?
"my friend was not reckless" - of course not, overtaking at 50 in a 30 limit.
"possibly caused an accident because of this fool" rather than the fool overtaking at 50 in a 30 limit I suppose
He "put our lives at risk?" What by stopping you doing 50 in a 30 limit?
"this guy was speeding " Oh, I see , that makes your speeding Ok then?
"no very serious offence was taking place " overtaking at 50 in a 30 limit? not very serious? wonder why my son got done £60 and had 3 points for doing 33 on a dual carriageway 30 limit then?
"If he was sensible, I'm certain that all will agree" that the driver should not have been doing 50 in a 30 limit
Sorry, I just don't get it. maybe I'm just thick.
--
Phil
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In reply to Pugugly:
Tototally agree.
Having read the net, not even with the new powers did he have the right to hold up my friend, even once he let it be known he was a cop, real or otherwise.
He had no legal device to measure my friends speed.
The facts are, this guy was speeding as well as my friend and almost everyone else, and the nikers were cutting up people and putting their own mecks on the line.
The fact remains, my friend would not have stopped if it was dark and if he felt he was being chased possibly by a nutter/car jacker, anything could have happened.
This so-called cop if he was a real cop put my friends lift, others lives and his life at risk as no very serious offence was taking place and he tried to act as a cop without uniform/vehicle that could easily been mistook for a car jack attempt.
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audi: why didn't you and yr three friends leap out and make a citizens' arrest?
That would have taught the so and so!
And you probably would have got away with it too.
I know.:
It's all very well for me to talk.
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audi: why didn't you and yr three friends leap out and make a citizens' arrest?
Hindsight is a great asset, but sadly we do not posses.
I hope this thread helps someone one day.
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>>READ MY ORGINAL MESSAGE, MATE.>> I did and it's taken from your original message. You openly admit that the speed limit was being exceeded prior to this point by your friend. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
So was the so-called cops and my intial message stated that my friend has not once denied that.
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"I hope this thread helps someone one day."
How?
--
Phil
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"I hope this thread helps someone one day." How? -- Phil
You are pulling my leg?
If not, then here it goes.
Looks like my friend was caught out be an ex/retired/real of duty/con cop. Having shared my views here, it has helped me in the fact that I did not know that a non unifired cop could not stop your car or get you to admit to speeding easipically this guy was. Importantly, you could press charges against the off duty cop for causing you anexietystress/etc!
Fact: I personally would never wind my window down to someone who knoecked on my windo and drive to the nearest cop shop or well lit area with lots of people about and sound my horn as it could be a nutter on my case.
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Yeah but all the same audi speaking as an innocent impoverished motorist I'd say it's the real ones in a bad mood you have to watch out for...
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AudiAudi, if you really believe that you've been stopped by someone impersonating a police officer, you need to report it - sounds cliched but the next person he stops or cons his way past could be your innocent granny.
Now, moving on to some of your other highly informed and interesting points:
>The ID had no metal badge.
You've been watching too many american police dramas I think. Can't speak for all forces but our local ones are just plastic credit card sized cards that are carried in normal wallets. They have a force crest, photo and something like Police Officer on them. It would have had his number in big type too - easy for you to note and help you with reporting above.
My cap is all squashed up in the bottom of my bag and has been so for about six-seven years. Never wear a tie because body armour makes it stick right in your throat, nor do I except any member of my shift to do so! Having said that, if you can't recognise me as a Police Officer, you need a white stick.
>In that case my friend, if your statement is to be believed,
>you not onlu putting yourself at risk,
>but risking the lives of your colleauges and public.
How is he putting himself at risk by not wearing his hat and tie? He's wearing body armour and other things that clearly identify him as a police officer. Not really sure the point you're trying to make really... but then I'm not sure you are sure either.
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AudiAudi says the "police officer" knows he was speeding because the officer was too. So guilty then m'laud.
And as PG says, the UK police do not have US style metal badges just credit card sized warrant cards. Heck years ago my youngest step-son rang for a lift and had a strop (been drinking at 13!) that you couldn't fit his friends bike in the boot of a Passat Saloon. A chap comes out of the house to see what the problem was and shows me his warrant card to say who he was and why he came out. All sorted of course... that's the short story not including traffic police attending :-)
Bottom line is this motorbike rider could well have been police. Maybe he couldn't do your friend for speeding but he did point out the "problem". Good on him.
P.S. If this was the USA with "metal shield badges" and not credit card sized police warrant cards, he'd have had an automatic weapon to point at your friend too :-) What would he do then I wonder when he spotted a shouldered semi-automatic...
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Sad to reply to myself but knowing it was a 30mph zone and "most vehicles travel between 35/50 mph there".... with that logic then most/lots of cars travel above 80mph on a motorway so that's also okay then???
If you travel at more than 26mph above the speed limit and get caught you will see the magistrates - no option to take 3 points and a fine. How many realise that? All on this forum :-) but who else. Because that's 47 in a 30 or 97 on a motorway for a car (not towing). So if the friend was doing above 47 and had points (say 6) then could have lost license. Food for thought.
I still like the idea of a cop with a magnum saying "make my day" ;-)
This is all moving to the speeding thread. Or a new stupid driver thread maybe?
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AudiAudi says the "police officer" knows he was speeding because the officer was too. So guilty then m'laud. >> Bottom line is this motorbike rider could well have been police. Maybe he couldn't do your friend for speeding but he did point out the "problem". Good on him. P.S. If this was the USA with "metal shield badges" and not credit card sized police warrant cards, he'd have had an automatic weapon to point at your friend too :-) What would he do then I wonder when he spotted a shouldered semi-automatic...
Re the 'good on him...' bit - the bloke put at risk all road users and pedestrians as my friend could have panicked and shot off thinking it was an attmepted car jacking and in the process crash and worse!
The guy on the bike took a risk that was not required and my friend and I now feel that it was pure envy that the cop was over taken as he shot away from the lights and doing up to 40mph, thus breaking the law hineself before our friend over took him.
I told everyone at work to what had happened and most felt that it was an old-ish guy that always wanted to be a copper but never made the grade.. If he was for real, then he is a walking time bomb that is igornat of risk assessments re his actions.
Re the gun you mention - I was stopped in the USA about 4/5 years ago on the Interstate 4 making our way to Miami doing about a hundred in a 70 zone. When I was pulled over I apologised when the officer pointed out it was a 70 zone. I said that back in GB, we were allowed to exceed speed limits on Motorways/Interstates by 40mph conditons permitting and was igornant of their law and apologised again. The officer let me off and we soon started our journey touching 100/120 at times!
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"You are pulling my leg?"
No
The whole episode would of course have been avoided had your friend been driving within the law - maybe that would be something to take from the thread.
"drive to the nearest cop shop or well lit area with lots of people about "
I thought you said it happened in broad daylight? "braod day light, CCTV everywhere, loads of people in cars and bikes"
Also let's create your statement in the cop shop ;
Hello officer, "my friend over took a motorbike. The man on the bike was do over 35 - 40 max and the friend was touching 45-50." "my friend was breaking the speed limit but so was the cop and the ones we see every day in marked cars breaking the 30 limit and undertaking cars without their blue lights on. Does that mean that my friend could stop a marked police car and arrest them?" "the initial response by my friend re the 30mph question and my friend calmy replied, 'not to worry friend' closed his window and speed off again "
Sounds like you would get a really good response from your local cop-shop
--
Phil
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