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Nice high horse you have there, but no-one suggested he was wrong to leave a gap. You don't believe he is wrong to stay in the overtaking lane when there's plenty of space on the left for him to move into when someone behind is clearly travelling faster than him?
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Sorry Bazza, you've missed my point think I think - Primera Man was keeping station with the cars in front, just as thse behind him were - the only difference being he had left a proper gap. Presumably if he had been following 50 feet behind the car in front of him they would have been happy? The following drivers obviously didn't think he should leave a gap, and I can clearly infer that there are respondents who would have taken a similar view.
As I say, and I think a lot of people will have noticed the same thing, the kind of driver who rushes past and into the gap tends also to close up so you are forced to slow when you reach the next lorry seconds later - the kindest thing one can say about them, if you think I am being unkind, is that they aren't giving much thought to their driving or to anybody else.
I don't think PM is the inconsderate one here - if that were the case he would scarcely have made the original post.
Anyway, he asked for opinions and I chose to be supportive - obviously that means the impatient drivers were being unreasonable in my view. If that's a high horse, I'll ride on, thanks.
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I agree that Primera is doing nothing wrong. If you follow the simple logic that he should be moving into the inside lane in these circumstances so should every one behind him be doing the same thing.
We have all seen the ?this is how it should be done? man who buzzes back and forth between the outside lane into the middle and then the nearside on the motorway and then repeats it all again seconds later to demonstrate.
If everyone was doing this we would have carnage.
As he states he was in an a 80 mph queue and the ones behind would simply drift past him leaving him in amongst the lorries with the queue alongside him simply having benefited by moving up one place.
Would the first one past him move also into the inside?.
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Wow, amazed by the number of replies. This is clearly a topic which stirs the emotions!
Thanks to everyone for their input. I do still think that I was in the right. I only stayed in the outside lane because, if I moved to the inside, I would lose my place in the 80 mph queue. It's not like those behind me would have been able to go much faster, as all that would have happened is they would have moved forward one car (plus the big gap I left). I certainly do not subsribe to the view that no-one should go faster than I do. As far as I'm concerned, I go as fast as I feel it is safe to do so. If others want to go faster, that's up to them. Personally, I would rather such drivers were in front of me rather than behind.
But there's no point in asking for your verdicts if I then ignore what you say. Based on a count of those who have provided an opinion, 11 say I was lane-hogging and only 3 say I wasn't. So I guess I must have been! In my defence, this seems to have been a one-off, so perhaps it is not too late for me to reform.
Perhaps the most important point was that, even though I may still think I was in the right, I did cause others to drive dangerously. That might be because they are poor drivers, but it was still me that caused them to drive badly.
There is a parallel here to the way my father drives. He drives so slowly but believes he is perfectly safe. Of course, he is really an accident waiting to happen, as all the drivers behind him bunch up, get really frustrated and try and overtake. I don't want to be compared to him, so I guess I had better change my ways.
On a similar road in future, I think I would move over more and just accept that I will get there slightly slower. Better that than to get there stressed or perhaps not at all.
One final point - I do think I am normally very considerate and always move to the inside lane where I can. This seems to have been a one-off for me. I wouldn't want to gain the reputation on here as a dreaded outside lane hogger, or I might just have to change my profite and re-register as someone else. Perhaps the very fact that I am willing to question whether I am a 'hogger' is enough to prove that I am not. I was clearly well aware of the traffic behind me. The worst hoggers, of course, are those that just sit there in the middle or outside lanes completely oblivious of any traffic behind them.
I'll just go and make that call to OLHA (outside lane hoggers anonymous)......
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>>I'll just go and make that call to OLHA (outside lane hoggers anonymous)......>>
There were also what the RAC used to term CLODS (Centre Lane Owner Drivers' Society)...:-)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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Fair play to you PM. I will make a special effort to thank Primera drivers who move over.
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there seems to be two slightly different threads here...
If you're in a queue of traffic, all of whom wish to travel faster but are patiently waiting for the road to clear ahead, then you're unlikely to pull in, because lets face it the chap behind might well come past you at that point, but ultimately wish to travel slower thay you, so you end up overtaking him again later.
The car at the head of the queue takes some responsibility for this and even if they are travelling firmly at the speed they wish, if they are only overtaking someone at a 1-2 mph quicker pace, then a brief period of extra speed will be helpful and courteous to those behind. This would also prevent the 'serial undertakers' who try to swoop at speed, then force their way back in again, when their way is ineveitable blocked.
Other than that, the previous comments apply i.e move over to the left.
I can see Primera Man's difficulty, as by leaving a fairly large gap, the people behind assume he's not that bothered with his progress and wish him to pull over out of the way.
It would seem that a middle road is req'd... not too close, but not too far back....
a lot of driver's have got into the habit of approaching the car in front (when there's a reasonable gap ahead) a little bit close to start with or even slightly overlapping, so the driver in front can see you in his offside door mirror, which indicates your desire to press on, then dropping back to a safer zone and being patient. Then if you are the car in front it's decision time...if you want to press on yourself, then ignore it, if not let them through.
Not in the highway code and debatable if wet, foggy etc, but seems to work
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"On a similar road in future, I think I would move over more and just accept that I will get there slightly slower."
You will be really really suprised.
I do a regular 150 mile journey M25/A1
It takes me 2 hours 30 minutes if I stick my toe down and do up to an indicated 80 mph (77mph actual) where possible
It takes me 2 hours 35 minutes if i stick the cruise control on and do a maximum of 70mph indicated (66 mph actual) where possible.
To increase your average speed by a bit, you have to significanly increase your peak speeds, and all the agro stress and fuel that goes with it.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Primera man, I sympathise. I know exactly what you feel in this situation.
If you pull in behind a lorry, you know that you may have the devil's own job getting back out again, and this will be because of the discourtesy of those who are behind you.
On a two lane road, the "stress free" way to drive is often at 56 mph in the slow land and 90mph in the quick one, which obviously a lot of people do not want to do.
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I'd go along with folks who suggest just easing the speed back a bit. It's amazing how much more relaxing driving at 65- 70mph is than 75 - 80mph.
Two other benefits:
1. Noticeably lower fuel consumption;
2. Easier lane discipline: you can actually use the inside lane for long stretches, and time your pulling out into middle lane gaps to cause minimum inconvenience to others.
The extra travelling time is negligible, as one of the OP's worked out, and you get there in so much better a mood!
Re: the question, yes, I'd say that's "lane hogging", or whatever you want to call it. I can see all PM's points, and he's not wrong as such; he'd just have an easier and safer life if he just let those people past who want to go faster, even if that meant losing a few seconds himself. Life's too short to be in one of these guys' accident - pull over and think about something you really enjoy doing or are looking forward to!
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my old gran used to say " i'd rather be 5 minutes late in this life, than 5 minutes early in the next"..... shame i never took any notice of her
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I wish I'd listened to what my Grandmother used to say.
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Mine made sure you did, she mostly spouted rubbish
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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I think I may not have made my comment clear.
The OP was saying about people tailgating, despite doing 80mph.
I was simply say that in that situation I would simply make progress as required and not pull in until I had cleared the traffic I wished to overtake rather than pulling into a narrow gap which is probably as unsafe as the idiot riding on my bumper.
I would not and do not block people intentionally, however if more people did stick to the speed limits there would be less issues with lane hogging and tailgating anyway.
No it isn't my job to slow people down or impede their progress, but neither should I feel pressured to pull over or speed up simply because someone wants to travel faster than the legal limit.
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No it isn't my job to slow people down or impede their progress, but neither should I feel pressured to pull over or speed up simply because someone wants to travel faster than the legal limit.
Spot on! Anybody who chooses to speed should make their own arrangements and defer to the rest of us, not the other way round. Power to the plodders!
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Manatee, you are wrong. The road belongs to those who want to get on with it, not people who are just occupying space and worried about their rights.
Either get on with it or employ a chauffeur who can.
It is the job of the authorities to prevent people speeding, not ordinaryy citizens who feel resentful that others speed. Just keep out of the goddam way. It isn't difficult if you aren't in a hurry.
Passive aggression is more dangerous than exceeding speed limits. Discuss.
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Manatee,
No one minds the plodder, each to their own...just make sure pull in a reasonable manner, then we're all happy. It's only when plodders deliberately hold others up there's an issue.
Some plodders seem to have an evangelical desire to police the roads themselves and make everyone else conform to their 'norm'.
If you don't do that and drive courteously, would actively get out of the way of a faster driver.......then great, we're in agreement.
Sadly i'm often impeded by someone doing 1.5 mph faster than the vehicle their overtaking which i consider to be selfish (other than lorries etc, who can't help it). A gentle increase by 6-7 mph wouldn't hurt and would be courteous, as would making the effort to pull in to let me through.... most do, some don't.
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Agreed Westpig - hand on heart, I frequently speed up to complete an overtake in good time, and I get far more pleasure from assisting with the general flow than making it difficult for anyone on purpose. I also feel good about keeping calm, which cannot be achieved by setting out to be confrontational or obstructive.
I do think that the pressers-on (and I am one occcasionally) should however be considerate too - as TVM pointed out, it costs very little time to plod, so the deferring for a few seconds is really not going to make any difference at all.
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Sitting on the fence again Lud? I think I share your well known dislike of mimsers but there are [speed] limits.
If only it were true that the more aggressive getters-on-with-it were the safer drivers, but nobody really believes that apart from themselves, in their fantasy Grand Prix. Fact is, it can be very dangerous to be significantly faster than surrounding traffic and I wouldn't be surprised if this contributes to the number of "I don't know where he came from" accidents involving bikes. (Yes I have been in one, I was on the bike.)
Not resentful of speeders, and am occasionally one myself on the motorway, but I don't expect anyone travelling at 70mph to inconvenience him or herself to allow me to do it.
I don't know where you seemingly got the idea that I advocate preventing speeding, when plodding I'll actively look for a chance to move over for you when it's convenient (for me!). I 'm feeling quite saintly in fact, having only this morning made way for the phallically challenged young thruster who goes past my house flat out every morning in his Volvo pram (it looks like one, and it goes too fast to read the badge) before braking heavily for the bend 200yds away. I try to make it look good though - his fragile ego might not survive if he knew I let him win!
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Deep sigh. How do we get from talking about "speeding" (IMHO on an empty motorway there's no such thing, just people driving at different speeds) on the motorway to talking about some idiot driving like a muppet on an urban road.
TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.
Can we not have an adult debate about something without mimsers always taking the easy way out and bleating "but the speed limit is 70"?
WE ALL KNOW THAT. The debate is NOT about that. Speeding is not a sin. FACT. You won't end up in hell because you exceed 70. If everyone learnt to drive properly then it wouldn't be a problem, slow drivers could mince along in their own unskilled, unchallenging way and everyone else could drive properly and SAFELY.
I don't expect anyone of Anglo-Saxon descent to understand any of these arguments as we're all pre-programmed ot feel guilt about anything and everything, so the idea of driving in a fast and competent manner just activates all our "but it's naughty" buttons.
Sigh again.
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Deep sigh indeed Stevied. Bleating? Do they mean me? You'll just have to trust me when I say I do prefer to make progress, and I don't feel comfortable holding people up, and I'm really not that narrow minded. I might even speed occasionally.
But can't we have an adult debate without pretending that we who consider ourselves to be above average drivers (100% last time I checked, funny that) are justified in choosing whether or not we obey particular laws. If you're going to speed, just get on with it quietly, don't overdo it, and don't pretend you're some sort of superior being. Try telling the copper that pulls you over that you weren't really driving too quickly, unlike those other mimsers you're just "fast and competent", and I'm sure he'll send you on your way with a conspiratorial wink instead of a fixed penalty.
Equally, nobody should feel that they are a good driver just because they stick to the speed limits. Driving at any speed deserves full attention and safety is absolutely paramount, regardless of speed.
Happy motoring all - I'm off to Norfolk tomorrow, now that will require patience and self-control!
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Sitting on the fence again Lud?
LOL, sorry Manatee, must have misunderstood you...
As a person who hates being baulked for no good reason, I always feel very bad if I get in the way myself (for no good reason). Actually this thread in various forms keeps coming round.
Must try harder not to rise to bait.
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Manatee, if you were ambling at your leisure down a very narrow footpath and some hikers came up behind you at a brisk pace, you'd step to one side wouldn't you? You wouldn't point out that there was a passing place up ahead and would they mind waiting till you get their at your pace.
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nice one.......... i understand Golf has a similar principle that some choose to ignore...... what we are really talking about is common sense and manners isn't it.
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"get their?"
I meant "there".
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Manatee, if you were ambling at your leisure down a very narrow footpath and some hikers came up behind you at a brisk pace, you'd step to one side wouldn't you?
Of course I would.
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