Hi all
My brother has had the above car for around 12 to 14 months. He bought it from a friend with 80 odd thousand miles on it.
I recommended that he get a new timing belt kit on it as it hadn't been replaced previously. A mechanic friend of mine did it for him around 12 months ago.
Well guess what? He was driving up the M5 and the timing belt went! He has covered around 20K miles since the change.
My question is whether he has any warranty left since the belt change? Surely it should last longer than 20K?
Any advice on the best course of action?
Thanks in advance
GazKaz.
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The PSA engines all have a well engineered timing drive. The most likely explanations in this case are that either the water pump failed (a weakness on these engines which needs careful checking at every belt change) or that the replacement belt was poorly fitted or tensioned in some way. Examination of the damaged engine by someone experienced in toothed belt drives would quickly ascertain the cause.
If the "kit" was fitted, which includes the tensioners and if the belt was of west European origin and correctly tensioned without stress during fitting, I'd put my money on a failed water pump.
659.
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Hi 659
If it is the waterpump thats gone, would he have lost the coolant or would he lose it anyway if it is the belt thats at fault?
Thanks
GazKaz
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GazKaz, If the water pump seal fails, the bearings collapse due to lubrication failure and water ingress. This makes the shaft go floppy and throws the belt off. You would lose some water if this happens, but not necessarily a lot.
659.
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I am afraid this shows up the golden rule in this type of situation. Replace the lot for piece of mind. That means belt, all the tensioners, and water pump. Just like a chain is only as strong as its weakest link, so a belt will 'go' if any of the constituent parts 'goes'.
The extra £75 to do it all is well worth the money. In practice given how long one might keep such a car, one does the job once. (or maybe twice).
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My diesel Xsara is due in for a cambelt change next month with the good ol'fashioned XUD 1.9TD. Worth getting the water pump done at the same time, then?
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I did on my 306 HDi, only £45 odd for a new pump.
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Car's back with new cambelt etc. Wallet is now lighter of 316 pounds, but that covered the belt kit, a waterpump (which was leaking, apparently), and something called a "micro-v-belt". Oh, and 144 pounds labour.
I hate cars sometimes.
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Glad it's back together and working. The "micro-v-belt" would be the drive belt for the auxiliaries - very wise to change this at the same time, as there is zero extra labour.
In view of the costs, I'm assuming there was cylinder head damage, which is almost inevitable in these cases. Do you know what the consequential damage here was (usually valves)? Was any comment made on the cause of the original belt's failure eg. was the water pump bearing loose as well as the pump being leaky?
About half way through the "life" of a PSA cambelt (I let them run to 50k miles/5 years) I remove the top belt cover and use a small Maglite (TM) torch with a focused beam to spy on the water pump below. Any evidence of a coloured "crust" of dried antifreeze around the pump bearing vent hole warrants immediate replacement, together with another new belt.
659.
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You misunderstand me - the belt hadn't failed, but was booked in for the scheduled 80,000 mile change. I asked them to take a look at the old pump and replace if necessary.
Forgot to ask to look at the old belt and see what the condition was like.
I was just hijacking the original poster's thread to moan about my now lightweight wallet. Will bear in mind your tip about taking a peek at the pump with a torch. :-)
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Sorry about the confusion - I should have checked the author of the original post. I'm staggered by the cost of the work you had done. I recently did the belt, idlers and pump on a TUD 5 diesel in a 106 which is a tight installation, in under 3 hours (wasted some time getting the old pump out of the block) and the total parts bill from GSF including a new auxiliary drive belt was about £85. Where did you have the work done?
659.
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Local independent. Timing belt kit was 76, water pump was 33, auxiliary belt was 12 (I think), then there was 144 pounds labour and of course VAT on top.
It's a very good garage, I don't think they'd have messed around and I'm sure the book time is somewhere in the region of 4 hours for the job.
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Hi all again!
Just had a price to get the car back on the road. It's being done by a diesel engine specialist (even tho the car's not a diesel) which came recommended by my mechanic friend.
They said it is a fairly routine fix. The bottom end usually is ok, it's the cylinder head which kops most of the damage. Any bent valves will be replaced and any damaged valve guides will also be replaced. I have been quoted around £600 to £700 to get everything fixed, this apparently includes, new water pump and timing belt kit. Does this seem reasonable?
Thanks again for your interest
GazKaz.
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Sounds about right - I hope there is not too much damage. If you can learn any more details as to the actual cause of the failure, it would be interesting to see it here. I hope you get a good job done.
659.
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Hi 659
Thanks for your reply.
It's booked in for next Thursday, so I'll let you know any details when I get them.
Thanks again
GazKaz
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No one has mentioned the Camshaft.
When a belt on my previous car, a Ford Escort 1.8D some years ago. It snapped the Camshaft and cracked the Camshaft keeps (caps/bearings) on the clylinder head, aswell as bending valves etc.
I scrapped the engine and got another from a low mileage car.
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The type of damage which occurs when a cambelt breaks is sometimes difficult to predict, as the outcomes of "accidents" always are. Certain engines have known weaknesses (hardly a fair term to apply in this case) but usually, the exhaust valves suffer the brunt of the damage. This is because the valve heads are almost red hot when the engine is under load, and consequently soft. The head and lower part of the valve stem bends on impact, causing the valve to jam partly open, sometimes with damage to the valve guide.
When I was involved in the development of the first "belt drive" diesel engines (not the Ford one), failures were spectacular and camshafts often suffered. All in all, very much best avoided.
659.
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Its a common one on the 2l as somesaid above change the belt then change the pump. These engines have a plastic pump and nearly all of them leak after a time.. failure is enevitable.
My coupe is due a belt change and will be spending the extra 60 bucks for a pump.
Dan
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It's possible a foreign object entered the timing belt cover and lunched itself between the timing wheels and belt. check covvers for damage, missing fixings, holes etc.
A seized waterpump or collapsed pump bearings would cause the belt to fail, but so would a belt that is too tight. Having said that, the cambelt tensioner is spring loaded and auto tensions the belt - assuming the tensioner mechanism was working correctly. There is a min/max measurement of the tensioner spring length. A belt that is too tight makes a humming sound in use and a belt that is too loose makes an almost slapping sound.
But yes, a belt should last longer than 20K
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