You'll find an explanation here:
www.canadiandriver.com/articles/rr/04jettatdi.htm
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Stuartli,
Thanks its a good link that explains it all. In summary a PD is better than a conventional common rail.
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>>In summary a PD is better than a conventional common rail.>>
Also requires a very high standard of engineering apparently.
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Stuartli, Thanks its a good link that explains it all. In summary a PD is better than a conventional common rail.
But not better than a High pressure common rail. Much more power and MPG can be got from those.
There is oft reported rumours that VW will dump PD for a new high pressure common rail.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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But not better than a High pressure common rail. Much more power and MPG can be got from those. There is oft reported rumours that VW will dump PD for a new high pressure common rail. ------------------------------ TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
If you expand VW to VAG they are. The 4.2TDI v8, 3.0TDI v6 and 2.7TDI v6 engines in the Audi A4 and up are all high pressure common rail units.
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The VAG group V6s and V8s dont have enough room for the camshaft driven PD injectors, hence common rail.
It is rumoured that VAG will drop the PD engines but only because the PD injectors are more expensive to produce and have a price premium of £5-600 per car.
Ask anyone who works on both types of systems which is the better of the two and they'll tell you that PD is superior.
There are lots of high pressure common rail pumps being replaced at huge cost.
I have a Golf with the 115bhp pd engine its a very good car, I averaged 52MPG for the first year of ownership.The worst tank being 40MPG whilst running in (I've owned it from new) and the best was 58MPG when on sabbatical from work for a month. Common failures are MAF and turbos are weak, check for oil leaking from the turbos bearings. The 115 engine was only used for the Golf / Bora for 6 months or so before being replaced by the 130, although the 115 was used in the Sharran for years due to its superior torque compared with the 130. If its a good one buy it.
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>>but only because the PD injectors are more expensive to produce>>
Hence my edarlier comment about high quality engineering being involved.
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Ask anyone who works on both types of systems which is the better of the two and they'll tell you that PD is superior.
I disagree, the principal of PD is fine though it is totally illogical to have the high pressure injection pumps driven off a belt drive cam shaft.
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But not better than a High pressure common rail. Much more power and MPG can be got from those.
This is a matter of opinion, as the PD system still gives as good efficiency as just about any of the latest common-rail engined cars at present, albeit with a slightly noisier tickover than some of the most 'state of the art' diesels. I think the reason why Pumpe Duse hasn't got a long term future, is on big V6 and V8 diesels, its too bulky in the cylinder heads, adds weight to the engine, has limited scope for 'pilot injection' and hence limited scope for ultra quietness, as is the case for many new diesels, eg Honda and BMW. Also, I understand that PD is near to its developmental peek for emissions control capability.
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Thanks its a good link that explains it all. In summary a PD is better than a conventional common rail.
No, PD is better than conventional direct injection (in efficiency terms) though CR is a much more logical solution.
That being said for a 6 / 7 year old though still contemporary diesel car a 115 PD Bora (or Golf) is fine. A TDCi Focus would be more refined and better to drive and you may get a 2001 or 2002 model for the same money. Dont mistake the earlier TDDi for a TDCi though, the TDDi is direct injection and is far less refined and less powerful, far from awful though.
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I had a 2002 51 gt 130, sold at 125k, this achieved 48mpg averge. This was over a period of about 10,000mls, or 2.5months of my commute from huddersfield to birmingham (M60, M6, M5)
my father had the 115, only poblem was the clutch, & flywheel.(don't even pretend to understand....)
great car, mine would cruise nicely at 90! (ish)
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Drive Your Way - If anything can, TerraCan
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just realised you said bora - i was talking of the golf, but same thing really...
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Drive Your Way - If anything can, TerraCan
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Perfection - Re your fuel economy question, I had a Passat TDi PD 115 bhp 5 speed and that would give me low 50's crusing on the motorway at around 70 to 80. I now have a Fabia vRS - PD130, 6 speed and that gives me high 50's at the same speeds.
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I've got a 2001 100ps 1.9PD Bora.
I get around 50mpg from it, mostly on the open road.
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>>I get around 50mpg from it, mostly on the open road.>>
My last check of the Bora's 1.6 16v petrol unit revealed it was averaging a fraction under 41mpg.
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One thing not mentioned so far in this thread is the specific oil requirements of the PD engine. There is a VW oil standard (505.01) which relates to the PD engine and there have been doom laden prophecies regarding what will happen to the engine if the correct oil is not used.
I'd make sure that the car has a genuine VW service history - not that this necessarily guarantees anything since early in this engine's life there were tales of the wrong oil being used by dealers.
The oil itself is expensive (especially if bought from dealers) with a knock on effect on servicing costs.
How many miles has the car in question done ?
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I thought the special oil was only required for long life servicing. If you used fixed servicing any old oil was ok.
It is dear - 13 quid a litre down at Halfords! Castrol edge.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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The 505.01 was developed for the PD, requiring oil changes annually or at 10,000 miles. Its for extended intervals, with the on-board oil condition monitor, that a 506.01 oil is required. This is the very expensive oil - 0W/30 viscosity.
"Any old oil" - VW warranty is voided on the PD's:)
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On servicing costs - mine used to be £120 at a specialist independent with the right oil!
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Drive Your Way - If anything can, TerraCan
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Thanks for your guys replies. However, I had a look at the Bora today, its a yr 2000, X reg, 45k miles, sport 6 speed with VW dealer service history upto 2003. Then it was an independent garage. Its a 2 owner car with acceptable bodywork, although there is a few small rust spot near the front bonnet (due to motorway driving??). Lookign at the history, 1st owner serviced the car at the main dealer, 2nd used the independent garage.
This car is being sold by an indepedent garage at the moment.
Generally, the 4 brake discs are badly worn, the garage says I can have it for £6700. One or two things in the interior that I'm not happy with, but not major (handbrake lever leather ripped slightly, a mobile phone holder attached next ot the radio (drilled to fit). The garage says he will give 12months MOT and possibly replaces all the brake discs and pads.
First I was concerned about the car's mileage being around the 50K mark, which means require a cam belt change. So I asked the seller, his replies were it had it done at 40K miles service. He shown me the "tick" in the box showng the tooth belt has been changed. Is this the cam belt. No receipt was availabke to confirm. Basically, any could have out a tick to the box to say that they have done the work.
Looking at the old MOT certs, it shows that the MOT was run out in Feb 06, what happened during the 2 months??
I looked at the genral wear and tear in the seats etc, they were normal not as think it was unreasonable with the mileage on the clock.
What I'm worried is that the 2nd owner used the car so littler in terms of mileage, has ot been clocked? I have heard the clocking these car is a easy, plug a laptop and type in any mileage you what? Can this be done that easy on a VW car? I know some dodgy garages do that.
What do you guys think of the price for age and the concern I have. Is the timing belt has been chaned, has it been clocked?
The other thing is, I will be doing about 15k miles a year on the car, is it cheap to run ? I'm thinking of the service. Anyone knows what the annual cost will be ?
Thanks for any replies. I'm 50 ..50 now either to buy it or not.
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£6700 is too high, especially considering the car doesn't seem to be in that great condition and there may be issues with its history. Parkers.co.uk values the SE at £6040 and the Sport £6440 from independent dealers. Which model are you looking at?
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Hi Scott,
Its the Bora TDI 115bhp Sport.
I think its too high too. Probably walk away then. I might consider the Citroen C2 1.4 HDi for similar price but it's 2004. At least it will be less problem??
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Don't expect a used car to be perfect - if you do indeed want it that way then stump up the cash and buy a new one.
Looking at the history of the car it was proabably on a 3 year lease then sold to a private buyer. To check the service history the obvious thing to do would be to contact the last owner or garage who stamped the book. Mileage wise the car will have been through 3 MOT's so any recent mileage alteration should show up on an HPI check. I suspect the MOT ran out whilst passing through "the trade".
You always have to check used cars carefully but you can be too paranoid. Most are perfectly honest. To check the price simply look at Autotrader etc. and see whether similar cars can be had much cheaper.
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BTW, price wise it "books" CAP at 7250 retail but the key check is what others are going for. The trade guide price for the car is 5650.
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Er.. Bora to C2? what do you want a car for, thats a big difference in type of car. I would re-check your criteria.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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The car need to be economical, cheap to run and reliable, since I'm doing 15K miles a year on the moterway. Hence I posted another message regarding to a C2.
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