I'm looking for a car to replace my diesel guzzling Nissan Terrano II. I'm looking for a 2 litre diesel capable of towing 1.5 - 2 tons. I was initially thinking of the Freelander TD4 but the write up on this site has put me off a bit due to poor reliability record. Any recommendations ??
your diesel guzzling terrano is being thrashed to a pulp if its pulling 1.5-2 tons as said its pulling more much more than legally allowed, suggest you buy a van? are you aware that if you are pulling this trailer for hire or reward you need a tachograph?
I disagree as most large 4x4s can tow up to 3.5 tons. Do not buy a van as I'm sure it is less capable than a 4x4. I presume you are not earning anything for towing the horse box and do not need a tachograph.
Eh - Schoolboy, I think you will find that the choice of 4x4 that can tow over 3t is very limited - most are only plated for 2t max.
SteveS, just get the lowest powered cheapset car you can, at the end of the day when actually towing the horsebox you will never be going any faster then 20mph, and even then you will no doubt slow down to a crawl at ever corner, junction or roundabout. Also, don't forget to remove all vehicle mirrors, as towing a horse box seems to make these a redundant feature. As a final point make sure that you don't spend needless money on insurance - as towing horse boxes gives you a shield of invicibility that enables you to pull out in front of any other vehicle on the road. ;o)
And so a RAV4 is classed as a 4x4, dosen't exactly support your argument does it - oh and the old suziki samuri was a 4x4 (and a very good off roader it was as well) - so still no support for your argument.
Accordingly to a friendly police accident investigator, there is no 'car' that can legally tow a horsebox although many still try - it needs to be a 4x4.
TU your comments about invincibility need thought - if you have £30,000+ worth of horseflesh weighing a ton or so moving about in a lorry or trailer, then you cannot stop suddenly or swerve without nightmarish results (Broken legs=shot horse). If you have started turning into a clear road and a car appears you cannot just stop and throw your load forward. Even worse if you are only carrying one horse and it start to skitter about on one side of the lorry - think about that when you are annoyed by a horsebox or decide to cut one up on a roundabout incase it holds you up!! Rant over!
I can assure you that my comments were well thought out and founded on my own expierences, many a time I have had to brake suddenly or swerve violently to avoid a horsebox - the last time was today on the M3 when one entered onto the motorway from the slip road without looking - quite how she missed 44t of artic was beyond me - but I suppose thats where the comment about the mirrors came from.
In defence of TU, we have an "equastrian centre" up the road. Its a nightmare. Underpowered and ancient lorry based horseboxes and modern 4x4s towing the obligatory Ifor WIlliams cause chaos here on a Sunday. The road is a popular motorcycling road There's going to be the mother of all accidents one day here. I would welcome a VOSA road check here one day.
I share the same opinion, mabe not quite so bluntly but we got cut up the other day by some idiot in a 18tonner scania who decided to take our side of the on ramp aswell. And then there's the people who drive it and would be just as hopless in a mini at 2mph in the rush hour.
Apologies then TU to you - there are always drivers who use slip roads badly, whatever the sex. I have no experience of driving a horse trailer but have driven a horsebox (lorry) and the mirrors seem to cover slightly less of an area than I would have liked. I still stand by other comments. It is very rare in any other vehicle to have a heavy loose load which is totally unstable, unpredictable and fragile. You have no choice but to slow for corners and roundabouts - as I am sure you would if you had a 20t panicky, unsecured load on legs in your artic!!
The more I think of it, the happier I am that I don't have to drive a horsebox again ....
Pugugly, I think the time will come when horse transport will have to be better regulated (I will get strung up here). Large lorries need an HGV licence and minibus's MIDAS, but anyone can drive a far more unpredictable load in a (small)horsebox and insurance for the box is relatively cheap. I have been asked to drive a horsetrailer but refused for all the reasons I gave TU. I have towed static loads ie boats and trailers with no problems. The lorry driving was fine but racehorse transport so not the wrecks one sees on the road occasionally with weekend riders.
There's a slightly odd premise to your original question. Why would a smaller diesel, inevitably working harder, be more economical than your larger one.
Diesels are at their most efficient at moderate revs and part-throttle. Trying to pull an overweight trailer at only part throttle on a small engine, sounds like a recipe for a rolling roadblock. If you're going to have to slow to those levels, then your Terrano would be even more economical. Exactly what mileage do you get to the gallon when towing? If you're making it into much more than double figures you're not doing badly.
Is this horse trailer single or double? If it's a double, what's it's plated maximum allowable gross weight? That's the only figure that matters when selecting the vehicles that can legally tow it. As correctly stated; most horse trailers cannot be legally towed by a conventional car [the offence is reckless driving - or current equivalent] and only a few of the larger "4X4s" can legally tow the double boxes. [None of them come fitted with anything near a 2.0-ltr.]
If the permitted gross weight [mass] of the combined vehicle and trailer exceed 3.5 tonnes; then serious consideration should be given to fitting a tachograph. The legal definition of "use as part of a trade or business" and "hire or reward" [Yes - a rosette!] has been significantly widened by recent court cases and installing them in flash new Wange-Wovers is now a significant part of the business.
The penalties for tachograph offences are aimed at deterring errant haulage companies and although totally disproportionate to the possibly minor infringements that may have inadvertantly occured in these cases; they are often still rigorously applied. Yet another "nice little earner" for the boys in blue - who, oddly enough, seem to be more highly trained in trailer law these days......
My partner uses a Kia Sorento diesel to tow an Ifor Williams 2 horse box to competitions throughout the midlands. Total weight of box and 2 nags, sorry high class performance equines, is 2.2 tons.
The Sorento was designed for, and is ideally suited to this job. It is rated to tow 2.8 tons, has switchable 4wd and the essential low-ratio transfer box. Overall fuel consumption is 31mpg, and at £15k nearly new the Sorento is an absolute bargain. Please read HJ's report in the car-by-car breakdown on this site. As a Sorento owner, I can endorse his view fully and would unreservedly recommend it to anyone needing to tow a boat, large caravan or horsebox.
'Soft roaders' eg X-trail, Freelander are NOT suitble for heavy towing. These vehicles do not have seperate chassis, so are rarely rated to tow over 1.5 tons. They don't have low-ratio to get you out of a churned-up field and are best left to the school run -which is what they were designed for after all.
As far as I know, the Golf Turbo Diesel is rated at 2 tonnes towing, and so is the E class Mercedes. How good they are at though is another matter.
Indeed, I've no idea of the plated weight of horse trailers either.
I often tow a trailer plated at 2 tonnes, but I don't think I've ever exceeded 1.5 tonne in actuallity. I've done this with a Frontera (did it but gearing and brakes unsuitable) a Discovery (much, much better in all respects) and now a Defender 90. The last named is the best of the bunch as a small rear overhang means the combination drives more as one.
Land Rover products can engage low ratio on tarmac. This is incredibly useful in manovouring as the abitility to trickle the combination without slipping the clutch does as much for your reversing ability as at least one lesson! A horse will also appreciate slow manuvouring as they do lean against the structure of a horse box.
Given that most equestrian events have their parking in muddy fields, the question really is what 4x4 do I want?
Me, I'd pick my Defender any day, but Discoveries are good and I know a horse owner that has used one for years. I would however strongly suggest, if it can't use low ratio on tarmac, and a lot of more basic ones can't, I'd walk away. (I've no idea if the Sorento can).
As for tachos - you do need to bear it in mind, but you can keep usuage private.
I thought the two limiting factors were
1) weight of loaded trailer must not exceed weight of towing vehicle (80% is the caravan club guideline, not a legal limit)
2) combined weight must not exceed 3.5 tonnes.
That seems to give quite a lot of leeway for a big heavy car, without having to stray into the realms of 4X4.
Whether it can pull it up hills etc is another matter. That would depend on the intended use. The odd local pony club meet is one thing, but long-distance hauling to shows etc quite another.
You are I think getting into the realm of driving licences. Post 96 or is it 97 licences without the towing test are weight limited (although it is not simply the gross weight from memory). As I've an ordinary car licence from before the deadline and as my Defender can reach 2.5 tonne loaded, can tow 3.5 tonne, so the Gross Train Weight could be 6 tonne. Or at least 2 tonne vehicle + 3.5 tonne trailer - I've not checked the GTW in the manual and whether I can add the payload of the Defnder into the sum.
GTW of what I've got though can be 4.5 tonne.
(I've ignored cautions about weight, speed and towing ability of the individual as this thread is not about it).
Yup quite agree.
My brother tows with a 6 x 6 Range Rover, Towing limit 4T Its 3,500Kg trailer weight as above 3.5T you CANNOT use over run brakes which means fitting the tow vehicle with a hydraulic/electric system.
The gross train weight if it exceeds 3.5T then you need a Tacho if it's for hire or reward but not otherwise. Otherwise how could you hire a 7.5Tonner on a car licence & not need a Tacho & I've done it loads of times to move house furniture for mates.
Wow, I didn't think one question could throw back so much feedback, and in some cases animosity (TU). OK I cocked up slightly in my question in that I should have added more info. My wife will be using the vehicle for towing 1 horse on rare occasions, for private use. The horse box and horse together weigh approx 1500 KGs. Apart from that the vehicle will be used exclusively as a family car...or should I have said 4 x 4 :)
Incidently the Terrano tows a laiden horsebox as if it wasn't there, but at 2.7 litre drinks alot and more importantly does not make a good family car in my opinion. On the motorway for instance it doesn't feel happy to me much above 60 - 70 mph. Certainly most large 4x4s are more than capable of towing this type of load; I was wondering what the smaller 4x4s were like ie Freelander / Kia Sportage / Nissan X Trail etc.
Defender, Defender, Defender, its the only way to go. My 110 300Tdi is a superb towing vehicle and general workhorse. I saw first hand what these things can take in the Army at the hands of sqaddies. I have towed a horsebox but now tow a twinaxle caravan with 4 bicycles on the roof and the kitchen sink in the back, no problem. Forget the Freelander, it is an expensive plastic 'soft roader' imitation Land Rover with horrific running costs: tyre wear rate and servicing requirements to name a few.
Defender's a brilliant workhorse - I love my oldie - not everyone's idea of car like transport when unhooked. Kia Sportage or an under rated Rexion. Cheap as chips but willl easily lug a horse and associated stuff; a little more civilised than a Landie.
my goodness, what a load of nonsense (ie most of the above)
READ the brochures (for likely contenders)
THEY DO NOT NEED to be $WD ( but probably will be/ more likely to be).
Note the "plated" weights in fact it tells one in plain English, tows 600/650/750 or whatever unbraked. Ditto for the various braked limits.
Most "big" 4Wd's do NOT legally tow 3500kg
& b***** all to do with 4Wd or FWD or RWD. It Varies
& Ignore the Caravan club stuff, its for mostly occasional "towers" who probably insist on driving faster than their capabilities ( & I appreciate that caravans catch a lot of wind therefore it is not ALL about the weight)
A 4WD Yeti will legally tow 2000kg (braked) the 140 or 170 BHP varient
I know this is an old thread. For what it is worth I have just traded in a 3.0L Isuzu Trooper rated to tow a maximum braked load of 3500Kgs and mpg in the low 20s
I use it to tow a boat (2250Kgs) a couple of times a year and wanted something more economical. I bought a Nissan Pathinder, so far MPG seems good but I don't have figures to hand. It is confortable and tows the boat. I had a few wobbles with it but that may be down to reducing the nose weight too much by putting the boat a few inches back on the trailer.