Right, time for a survey. Marks out of 100 split as follows: -
Dials - Are they easy to read, can you see them all from your usual driving position, are there any quirks that infuriate you etc etc? (40 marks)
Dials - overall design and style impression. Are they not just easy to read, but do they look good? (10 marks)
Controls, switches, stalks etc - are they easy to use, easy to find, logically located etc etc?(40 marks)
Controls, switches, stalks etc - overall design and style impression. Are they good to look at? (10 marks)
Volvo S80 - 90
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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Oops ended too early...
Volvo S80. Excellent dashboard, clear dials and excellent controls, let down by virtually nothing other than round stalks (a bit 'fat') and too many blank switches along the bottom. 90 marks.
Subaru Forester - 70 marks. Dials easy to read but no style or finesse to them or the switches, some of which are hard to find and will lights that are too small.
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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Ford Focus - 80%
Let down by 1. Headlight flasher/main beam switch
2. Hidden foglights on light.
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Ford Focus - 80% Let down by 1. Headlight flasher/main beam switch 2. Hidden foglights on light.
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Totally agree.with 1. & 2
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BMW 2006
1. 40
2. 09
3. 35
4. 10
BMW 1989
1. 40
2. 10
3. 40
4. 10
Landie.
1. 3
2. 9
3. You're havin a laugh !
4. 3.
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"Ford Focus - 80%
Let down by 1. Headlight flasher/main beam switch
2. Hidden foglights on light."
Yes, so many cars have the front fog light 'lights on' light hidden. There should be a law to put that light on the main dashboard together with the rear fogs.
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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Pooh ! forgot to include iDrive,,,,
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Citroen Light 15, LHD, austerity-era 1948, 100%; Any 2CV, 100%; early Mini, 90%. All these cars had a simple speedometer with a couple of insets for fuel and temperature, with few enough switches and stalks for a chimpanzee to be able to learn what they were for in an average of 7.6 seconds. Mini loses 10 per cent for having the speedometer in the wrong place.
All Porsches get 100% for putting the rev counter in the middle.
My ideal car would have an immense rev counter redlined at 8,000-plus, with the only other instrument a colourful vacuum gauge. All switches and stalks should be elegantly unlabelled.
Yes, I am having a laugh.
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Here is one area where the Europeans have the Japanese beat. Much as I love Japanese cars, especially their long term reliability and some interesting technical bits (esp Honda), they are always let down by uninspiring dashboards.
I saw inside a Focus C-max today. It looked very good and far better than the Mazda5 equivalent in terms of dashboard design and layout.
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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My 405 is great - all I need is well presented.
On the subject of dials being clear etc. the Lynx helicopter was designed so that all the dials (we are talking early/mid 1970s at design stage, released to MoD in about 78) were aligned so that the normal/safe state had the needle in the vertical, making any fault easy to spot.
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Jap v. Euro - Yep- Work's Honda IMA Civic is a right mish mash of poor ergonomics and confusingly different colours after dark, green switchgear and a blue inst. pod. and a radio tilted away from the driver.
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) werealigned so that the normal/safe state had the needle in the vertical, making any fault easy to spot.
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I beleive Rolls Royces used to be like this too (the vertical position on the speedo was about 70mph, so this wouldnt really work in town!)
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1993 Polo.
1: 38 - Loses marks simply for the slightly odd calibration on the fuel gauge, still haven't fathomed that out with 100% clarity. Some the most easy read instruments I?ve seen.
2: 7 - No design flair at all, but designed with typical German "no-nonsense" approach, which appeals to me hence the marks.
3: 35 - Again, another excellent piece of 'design', if that?s what you can call it, when you consider how simple it all is. Column stalks and dash mounted switches are all easily accessed, and placed 'just so', falling quite readily to hand. You don't have do go bending or leaning for the heater controls or radio, they're all just 'there' if you know what i mean. If it wasn't for the fact the headlight/sidelight switch being totally hidden by the wheel rim, I would have given full marks.
4: 5 - See (2) above.
I think some car designers should take a fresh approach to this, cos some more modern cars are just rubbish at this. Gimmicky dials which are hard to read, and switch/ controls (mainly heater ones) being placed far too low down IMHO.
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In agreement with Alastair really.
(1) 40 marks Easy to read, well laid out.
(2) 7 marks They look...ok as far as dials go. Probably a bit outdated with the green backlight against VW's blue or Toyota's white.
(3) 35 marks. Silly main beam - why they didn't stick to the old Ford way of push it out to keep main beam on and pull it towards to flash (and it flicks back itself) I do not know. Also requiring front fogs to be on just to have the rears on is annoying. Nothing else springs to mind.
(4) 10 marks Snazzy design which looks very different even today. Whilst by no means an exectutive car, the cream and wood interior makes it feel like it's better than it really is! Solid - no rattles or squeaks.
Ford Focus - 92
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Chrysler Voyager, (new shape) 70marks. Great to look at the dials but one of the switches makes you take your eyes off the road to use it. Another thing is that the dashboard does not dislay a head lamp light and just illuminates and only registers for full beam. There is no problem with a light in the dash , its just designed like that.
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>>Another thing is that the dashboard does not dislay a head lamp light and just illuminates and only registers for full beam.<<
A lot (in fact, every single one we've owned in the past 10 years) has worked like that.
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Ford mondeo 54 reg
1 30
2 6
3 20
4 5
Overall good. styleing nothing special
Isuzu trooper L reg 1993
1 2
2 2
3 2
4 2
Abismal controls (dial for wipers) awkward switches, fog light swich had to be moved a simposible to see let alone find
Ford transit 54 reg
Roughly same marks as mondeo.
Merc sprinter van Y reg 01
30
8
25
5
Most dials logicly placed, overall beter layout than the transit.
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Do you mean specifically Chrysler Voyagers or cars in general?
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All cars in general. Or at least all the ones we've had anyway.
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Mondeo Ghia X, revised old shape.
1. Dials 35
2. Looks 8
3. Controls 30
4. Looks 7
total 80
Hazard flasher position is awful. It is on the top of the steering column. When needed, it may be dangerous to operate and a passenger cannot reach it.
No simple cold air vents.
No proper control of washers.
Suffer LHD indicator stalk.
Light switch can be operated in error, on exiting, with right knee to select parking lights and of course no audible warning.
Electric door mirror adjuster is not on/near drivers door.
Same light switch is pull for fogs and proper colour coded symbols show on main dash. Excellent feature.
Fog lights switch off with other lights so have to be re- selected next start up.
Separate auto timers for heated windscreen and rear window.
Proper headlight flasher control.
Indication on the fuel gauge which side the filler flap is.
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1997 Mitsubishi Galant Estate VR-4
1. Dials 35
2. Looks 8
3. Controls 30
4. Looks 7
Dials are invisible with power off, being in a deep binnacle and back lit by a fluorescent light. Bright red illuminated needles, white backlit graduations & numbers. Best instruments I've ever had, being clear and user-friendly. Backlight is dimmable for night driving but bright enough for day use.
Controls are all very good. Almost everything on two stalks. Let down by backlit LCD screen for aircon. This is not bright enough in direct sunlight. Style is good, clear, uncluttered.
1984 Jaguar XJ12
1. Dials 30
2. Looks 7
3. Controls 25
4. Looks 5.
The old Series 3 dash, inherited from the Series 2 (c.1976), fortunately without the plastic silver painted rims to the dials. More information than the VR-4, with oil pressure & battery voltage, but you do need to know it on the Jag. Back lighting on the Jag instruments is pathetic. I'll probably replace the pea bulbs with LEDs some time. Controls aren't bad, two stalks, but they're a bit square and horrible, with symbols instead of words. Again I suppose they were part of the BLMC standard fit and carried over into the series 3. Despite all that, there's a very good feeling driving the Jag, very calming.
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My 1982 Ford Granada Ghia: -
1. Dials - Speedo, fuel, temp and rpm easy to see during the day, and logically set out. However the lighting is dreadful at night and apparantly they were like this from new!
The ammeter and oil pressure dials are in the centre of the dash and not easy to look at without taking your attention of the road for a second or two. Score 18
2. Style? Possibly 'stylish' when the car came out in 1977! Very staid design, not really any flare whatsoever! Score 3
3. Generally very good, even the fog light switches are very easy to find on the dash. The only negative is the position of the stereo, which is low down in the dash and you have to reach forward a bit to press the buttons. Inserting or ejecting a cd is a bit fiddly as it is right in front of the auto transmission shifter, when it's in park, but I suppose cars did not have cd players back then! Score 25
4. Again probably top banana in 1977! Score 3 - definately function over form
Total 1982 Granada = 49
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k reg honda 50 everything is well clear on mine speedo though the bulb goes out sometimes and it has to get a smack,apart from that 100% out of 100% she"s a likkle dream :)
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\"a little man in a big world/\"
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Fabia
1. 40 : fully visible
2. 08 : no design marvel, but easy enough to read
3. 40 : can't fault really
4. 08 : I like them, they're very simple
C4
1. 35 : all fully visible, night (dark mode) but bewildering confusion between the top and middle display. Takes me a few seconds to find the clock for example.
2. 10 : brilliantly stylish, french design
3. 25 : If I ever meet the idiot who placed the rear heater switch (almost unmarked) in the middle of the radio controls, I'll have him locked in a room with Jakob Neilsen until he understands the Fitt's Law (www.useit.com/jakob/ & en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitts'_law ) Would have been a lot lower were it not for the groovy steering wheel buttons
4. 10 :Look great, thoroughly modern design - new Civic aside, there's not much around that is so futuristic.
'83 Mini
1. 40 : simplicity's own self
2. 04 : It's a later model so no centre speedo. Minus 6
3. 20 : There's only six switches but they're marked in some weird dingbats symbols. There's at least one I still don't know the function of. Still better laid out than the C4 though.
4. 08 : sort of a retro chic, but standard BL bin stuff, so would only get a high score if you're Wayne Hemmingway
Lee -- Do you have any conceivable reason for even getting up in the morning?
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Alrightey, looks like the forum software isn't parsing the input to handle single quotes in links. Try this : tinyurl.com/2ujsx for Fitt's Law
Lee -- Do you have any conceivable reason for even getting up in the morning?
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OK here are my marks for the cheapo Hyundai cars.
Dials - 40. No pretensions, everything big and easy to read. Everything's just where it should be.
Dial style - 5. Nothing fancy but there's a certain charm to just getting the job done with no fuss.
Controls - 35. One of the most logical cars in the main I've ever driven. The controls are on the stalks wherever possible, the idea of having dual-speed on the push-up part of the wipers as well as the switch is a nice touch, the only stupid bit is the positioning of the rear wiper -- where the headlight switch is on Ford/Vauxhall. Obviously an afterthought and totally illogical. However, the placing of the indicators on the right-hand side (the CORRECT way, I don't care what anyone else says, as it allows you to switch off main beam if there's someone coming the other way and you're changing gear as you notice, and also allows changing gear and controlling the flashers at the same time).
Controls style -- who ever looks at the stalks? They do the job, although they're black rather than grey which conflicts with everything else. 7/10.
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I disagree with a few of these posts, for the three I have driven recently;
2004 Accord
1 - 39 Let down marginally by the lack of different illuniation settings for lights on/off
2 - 10
3 - 35 - fog light switch can be confusing. turn up and it gives front then rear, down gives just rear.
4 - 10 - not too cluttered. Don't normally look at them - I watch the road!!!
Dons asbestos underwear
BMW 5 Series 2004
1 - 20 (Radio, climate etc hidden most of time in i-drive screen
so not visible at all)
2 - 10
3 - 10 Took 2 hours to work out how the cruise worked so cannot call it intuitive - way behind the Honda. the guy who has been driving it for 4 months hadn't found resume! As for I-drive!!!
4 - 5 - stalks sticking out of the steering column at all angles (e.g. cruise) and buttons on the wheel with no obvious function (e.g. up down arrows which do not control cruise speed OR radio volume! - eventually worked out that they control the trip computer - what does that need to be on the wheel?)
2003 Merc C200 Compressor
1 39 - if it can turn the lights on itself why can't it turn them off when I get out itself!
2 10
3 35 - initial shock at reaching for the handbrake when changing driver at a motorway juntion and not finding it but the handbrake is very easy after a few tries (not that the wife would think so)
4 5 - Everything feels a bit down market
Obviously from this Japanese drivers use the ten to two positioning for their hands as that is where the cruise/radio controls are. Germans drive with hands at twenty five past six with their arms resting on their knees - why else is cruise where it is on the BMW!
Edited by Webmaster on 26/10/2007 at 01:39
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Mk I and Mk I facelift Focus ~ 100%
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L\'escargot.
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2004 Accord 1 - 39 Let down marginally by the lack of different illuniation settings for lights on/off
Have you tried turning the trip selector? On my Honda, I can switch between two illumination settings with the lights on.
BIG
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I'd give my Focus about 95%
The main beam stalk and (lack of) intermittant wiper controls are my only gripes.
Apart from those I still think that the MK1 Focus dash is one of the most attractive designs on the market, certainly prettier than the one in new Focus. If only they'd made it out of those touchy-feely plastics to make it feel more nicer to the touch then it would be perfect. As it is I've got no gripes about *actual* quality of the dash, only perceived, and even then it's only when I'm sad enough to tap it!
When the new Focus was launched I said that it would need time to grow on me, as it happens I still think that my old style Focus looks more attractive, so I guess I need more time.
Blue
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My 1986 Isuzu Piazza (well, mine until I sold it in late November): 5%. But 100% for entertainment value. Turning right? Turn on the aircon. Need to move the steering wheel? There goes the rear wiper...
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Apart from those I still think that the MK1 Focus dash is one of the most attractive designs on the market, certainly prettier than the one in new Focus. If only they'd made it out of those touchy-feely plastics to make it feel more nicer to the touch then it would be perfect.
I never touch mine. That way I don't get finger marks!
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L\'escargot.
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Always found Hondas to be excellent!
Got a big suprise recently when I bought a 10 year SEAT Toledo TDI for use in my house renovation. What a trip back in time - not backlit and the heating controls have a light in the centre and clear plastic pieces which are supposed to transmit the light to the outer controls!! Absolute cr*p!
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Saw the Used Car Roadshow man the other night praising the horizontal strip speedometer in an Austin or Morris 1100 (which he referred to as a 'classic', obviously meaning well-preserved middle-aged car). My 1964 Plymouth had one of those too, with the white line slowly changing to red like a spirit thermometer. The only thing to be said for these is that they are different; in every other way they are pure carp. Round 'classical' dials, preferably white on black, are the best.
You don't often see an oil pressure gauge these days although I suppose Porsches might still have them. The standard R Type Bentley didn't have a tachometer (I suppose by the fifties a 4,500rpm red line was beginning to look a bit embarrassing) but did have an oil pressure gauge. Very worrying to drivers in a hurry in the days before multigrade oil. Rolls-Royces used to hate being hurried over long distances and the pressure would go down and down. No doubt these German Rolls-Royceoids are better in that respect, but they are so fast that we may never know.
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That word is creeping in a again(C***c) Lud! maybe there should be a fine for improper use
Those ribbon speedo's were carp
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Always found Hondas to be excellent!
Problem with the new Honda's with the electrochromiatic illumination, is that the dials are always lit up regardless of whether the lights are on or not. Thus at night, it's not so obvious when you've forgotten to switch your lights on. (on conventional cars the dark dash usually serves as a reminder!)
AUDI A4 - scores 99.9
Perfectly clear
Classy (generally regarded as one of the best dashboards/interiors of all time)
Clever (illumitated by day but has a light sensor so when dark and you're lights are off, the dash goes dark to serve as a reminder to switch your lights on.
The LCD Driver Info Display also adjusts brightness so is brighter in heavy sun making it easier to read, yet not dazzling in dull weather.
Prioritised warning system - i.e. if something major happens (like your oil pressure drops or you've left your handbrake on) it overrides less important warnings on the screen like washer fluid, etc.
Has audible beep warnings as well
Warning symbols show up on the screen in inch-high symbols, with written description underneath (e.g please refuel)
It only loses 0.1 of a mark due to the speedo being in 20-40-60-80-100-etc instead of the more useful 10-30-50-70-90-etc markings.
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MoneyMart
Current car: 55-reg Audi A4 2.5 V6TDi Quattro flappy-paddle
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No one has mentioned the wonderful Citroen CX and GSA with the brilliant rotating drums and rocker switches.
Shame on Citroen for discontinuing them!
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