Fiat has had crises here in the past. Quite a few dealers shut down in the early 1990s because Fiat, at that time, had ageing models. But the arrival of the Punto (series 1) restored the UK dealers' fortunes.
Now it seems the firm is going through a similar phase. Hopefully the imminent arrival of the Grande Punto (already being displayed at Harrods in London) will revive UK dealers' fortunes.
Fiat would seem to have some good models in the pipeline. There will additional versions of the Grande Punto, a new Stilo and a new Fiat 500 (which will form the basis of the next Ford Ka) will be built at a new joint Fiat/Ford manufacturing facility in southern Poland.
In a recent financial briefing the UBS bank reckoned that the profit margin on the Grande Punto was Euros 3,000 per unit. If that's true it will bring much needed revenue to Fiat's coffers.
Orders for the Grande Punto exceed 100,000 in mainland Europe.
Prices start at Euros 10,990 (for the basic three-door 1.2 eight valve Active) in Germany. I would imagine UK prices will be quite a bit above the current Punto (series 2) range.
On the other hand, some of that Grande Punto profit is already
being handed back in the form of zero per cent finance. Fiat (Germany) www.fiat.de is already offering zero percent finance on this vehicle.
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Fiat / Alfa dealership in Leicester has also recently closed.
Not surprising really as it once employed the rudest, pushiest salesman i have ever encountered...
Fiat will be the next MG Rover. The Alfa Romeo and Ferrari brands will be sold off, Alfa probably to VAG or RenaultNissan.
Fiat itself will continue as a small-scale manufacturer, selling mostly to the Italian domestic market. It won't have the resources to develop competitive new models, sales will steadily decline and it will collapse a few years later.
Absolutely inevitable.
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I was wondering if some of these flagging car makers will switch to 'developing' countries like India.
We have already seen tobacco companies starting all over again in these places as well as companies like cocacola, pepsicola and various other purveyors of addictive chemical concoctions which have fallen out of their 1980's heyday.
Tastes in the west are changing and other parts of the world are gaining huge numbers of new and dare I say naive consumers. For example, India is generating 64 times more electricity than it did 15 years ago, the economy must be rising fast, whereas most in the west seem to be teetering on the brink.
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Bradgate, that´s more than possible. However, do not underestimate the power of the Italian unions and the political will in Italy to keep it going, if the new models fail to haul it back up towards profitability.
BTW a Grande Punto in Harrods....?!? Can´t be many prospective buyers there. Surely Netto/Asda would have been more appropriate..
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The Grande Punto makes its Harrods' debut on January 29. It'll be on display for two months.
And, yes, barchettaman you're quite correct with your references to the Italian unions and the political will in Italy. The classic example of a Italian survivor is the loss-making national airline Alitalia.
Ishok Leyland refers to the Indian market's potential. Well, Fiat and Tata Motors have just, or are about to announce, a joint venture agreement. In any case, wasn't the popular Indica styled by an Italian design house ?
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Designed by IDEA of Italy.
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All big Italian companies make a loss and survive its the Italian way ,they must provide half the world with diesel engines even Ford now buy them .They have being going broke and closing down since the fifties and yet survive and produce marvelous cars Ferrati,Masserati,Alfa,and the new Lancias are really superb.I think they will out live Ford and Vauxhall in this country.
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"I think they will out live Ford and Vauxhall in this country."
Not with sales declining by 50% a year, new product like the Croma and with no dealerships in cities like Nottingham & Leicester they won't...
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You may well be right about the unions and government. Fiat may well be kept on life-support for political reasons, but it has no future outside Italy.
State owned Alitalia has been a loss-making basket case for years, and continues to be propped up by the lucky Italian taxpayer.
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I had thought the forthcoming Grande Punto was going to be a lot more expensive in the UK. But I was wrong.
According to fiat.co.uk it's priced from £7,594 for the 3-door and from £8,194 for the 5-door. This has to be great value.
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How can Alex think that those prices are good value? If you're gonna buy a small car,it would be cheaper to buy a depriciation proof VW Polo, even at the list price of £7495!
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How can Alex think that those prices are good value? If you're gonna buy a small car,it would be cheaper to buy a depriciation proof VW Polo, even at the list price of £7495!
VW Polo's don't hold their value like they used to, Fabias's seem to be better in that regard. The 1.2 54 bhp engine is very slow, 0-60 in 17.5 seconds !
Give me the new Fiat Punto any day.
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Wron to say they have no future outside Italy they are massive sellers in Germany and Holland.The Alfa 156 is almost as common as a Corsa in the uk.
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Brad,
"the lucky Italian taxpayer"? You don't think you might be contributing a bob or two via the EEC?
John
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I was wondering if some of these flagging car makers will switch to 'developing' countries like India. .
They came with a great product - the Uno and Palio, screwed up with bad service - first took deposits for the Uno and never delivered /refunded on time. Then poor after sales.
They are in the process of tying up with Tata to distribute the Palio and the Grande Punto
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Fiat should concentrate on building small cars - which they have always been very good at - and leave the middle and top end of the market to Alfa which has a good badge.
Tighten up on some quality issues (although they are much improved) and away you go.
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Apart from the new Panda, the rest of the range looks.. yawn.
The reliability issues they have had still dog them.
Many of their dealers are quite small and I suspect struggle with the more complex (i.e lots of gadgets) models.
Having driven 1 Fiat in the past 10 years - a Marea.. and compared it with the 124 I drove 30 years ago.. they have gone backwards imo.
Frankly I suspect I'm like many when I say I neither know nor care.. (but I do like the Panda:-)
madf
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Fiat have been found out.Too many years making sub standard product and sold purely on price.I think in the UK and across Europe Fiat have lost lots of sales to the Korean brands,Kia and Hyundai,which are priced very keenly and with a very comprehensive extended warranty package.
For most people when they buy a new car the price,warranty and location of the main dealer are very important when they are making their decision.
Cars as white goods,the Koreans do very well,Fiat do not.
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There are more FIAT dealers in my locality than there are Citroen dealers. We tend to look at things from a UK point of view, rather than the wider European scene. I also don't think the Italians would accept the demise of the company as we watched our own home car industry disappear.
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The Panda is made in Poland: cheaper than Italy.
madf
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UBS bank has just released a statement saying they expect Fiat to be THE most profitable car maker in Europe in 1Q 2005, although they admit the competition isnt terribly strong at the moment. With the Grande Punto order book bulging, and the Croma orders are as hoped for, and the Alfas 159 and Brera being sold already in Europe I think they'll be ok, and not just in Italy.
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The Panda is made in Poland: cheaper than Italy. madf
They make some cars in other countries, which is no different to other volume manufacturers, including Honda and Nissan. Are Honda and Nissan likely to stop manufacture in Japan?
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I should have said Toyota and Nissan. Do Honda make cars outside of Japan now?
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Henry,
Swindon was outside of Japan last time I went by. :-)
John
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I couldn't recall if they were still at Swindon.
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What some of you won't remember, in the 60's Vauxhall went through a bad patch with with their range of cars through bad rusting problems, same as Alfa in the 70's.
But they are still around today allthough most come from abroad, Spain, Poland and etc.
Also if you want a City Rover theres plenty of them now from a recent shipment at Portbury waiting for some fool to buy one.
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What some of you won't remember, in the 60's Vauxhall went through a bad patch with with their range of cars through bad rusting problems, same as Alfa in the 70's. But they are still around today allthough most come from abroad, Spain, Poland and etc.
Vauxhall isn't really Vauxhall any more: it's just a rebadged Opel, and exists only in the UK -- everywhere else, the same cars are sold as Opels. Even in Ireland, the only other r/h drive market in Europe, Vauxhall quit 20 years ago because Opels sold much better.
If Fiat was to stop making cars and withdraw from every market except Italy, where they sold Renaults with a Fiat badge, would you say that Fiat was still around?
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Yes, I would.
So you couldnt't buy a FIAT in England, and you couldn't get one in any nearby European country, and the only Fiats left on the road were ancient relics, and you'd still say that Fiat was still around?
Very clever. Good to know that by that definition, Jowett is still aound.
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Holden are around aren't they? Well - they were - now they use Vauxhalls badged as Holdens. Does that mean they don't exist?
And don't be so blooming patronising NW. I have no idea who Jowett is but I'm guessing he was someone stupid/evil/nasty and the fact I've disagreed with you makes me somewhat like him.
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That would be the Jowett as in....Jowett Javelin?
::Walks away red faced wishing he had an edit button::
You were still patronising though. I'm not clever in the slightest.
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You were still patronising though. I'm not clever in the slightest.
C'mon Adam, you made what you hoped was a wise-guy one-liner -- what sort of response do you expect?
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I thought I'd break with tradition and make a concise and lucid post.
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...I think in the UK and across Europe Fiat have lost lots of sales to the Korean brands,Kia and Hyundai,which are priced very keenly and with a very comprehensive extended warranty package....
In Italy too. Colossal amount of advertising and marketing for Kia, Hyundai etc, which sell very well. All v worrying for a company used to a pretty exclusive home market.
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Apart from the new Panda, the rest of the range looks.. yawn.
Thankfully they have now facelifted the Doblo. Now it's just ugly as opposed to Ssyanyong Modus ugly.
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In a recent financial briefing the UBS bank reckoned that the profit margin on the Grande Punto was Euros 3,000 per unit. If that's true it will bring much needed revenue to Fiat's coffers.
How much margin is there normally in a supermini?
If they're being thrown together to too tight a budget, Fiat won't get those much needed sales.
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