Advice needed after accident :( - irv
Incredibly gutted.

Last Wednesday, both myself and my girlfriend had the day off. We were on our way to York to buy a new shower as ours had packed in the day before. I work in York, and my usual work commute is 22 miles door to door. I drive there and back every day and have done so since I bought the car in August.

The road from where i live to York is the A19. It's mostly national speed limit with three villages along the way, two of them 30mph zones. The first village is known as "Death Hill" due to the number of accidents that have happened there over the years. It is a very steep hill and people used to drive too fast over it (some still do), it has recently been changed from a 40 to a 30.

Pleased to say I negotiated this fine. About 5 miles prioir to getting here though I came up to the back of a couple of cars. The one directly infront of me was a black coupe. It was either a Honda or a Hyundai, but I honestly wasn't close enough to distinguish the difference in the badges.

I'm a sensible driver; I'm 22, but I was hit by a car 10 years ago and my girlfriend's dad was killed by a drunk driver. I certainly appreciate road safety. As a result, I was about 4 car lengths behind the car infront of me doing about 45 after we'd gone through death hill. As my girlfriend always says, "only a fool breaks the two second rule".

After death hill its back to national speed limit and over a slight hill. As I have said, I was doing about 45 and keeping station with the car in front. We accelerated very slowly out of death hill but there's no where to safely over take and I wasn't in a rush so I just kept my distance. we went over the crest of the hill and down the other side, so i could only see the car infront of me and not the car infront of him (or her)... when the coupe infront of me suddenly swerved round the car infront of me, complete with screeching brakes and everything. I immediately slammed all on and also tried to move round but my car doesn't have ABS brakes, so you tend to brake in a straight line. I unfortunately skidded down the hill into the back of the car that was infront of the car infront of me. If you get my meaning.
(i'm not 100% convinced i did turn the wheel at all, looking at the angle it ended up in it looks more like my backend stepped out under the heavy brakiing down hill but i'm no expert)

It was a big enough impact and both myself and my girlfirend were understandably shocked. The car that was infront of me drove off, leaving just myself and the car I hit. A Mercedes.

The Merc had a broken bumper, I asked the woman if she was OK but she just wanted my details, which we exchanged and she drove off. I called the police but there weren't interested. My car was blocking the road!

I got a farmer to give me a tow into a layby on the other side of the road and a copper showed up, breathalised me, checked my insurance, etc. He never asked me what happened. (Needless to say, i passed the breathaliser).

My car wouldn't start and my girlfriend was pretty shook up so I arranged for a lift for her from a family member and then payed £55 to have my car towed back.

It wasn't until the weekend when i got around to looking and found where the fuel isolation switch was. The car runs fine, with no damage to the radiator or anything as the impact eneded up being on the passenger side. The crash damage is as follows: dented bumper, slightly buckled wings, one smashed headlight (passenger side) and the other headlight has a broke clip, damaged bumper and damaged front panel. More worryingly, part of the chassis arm is sticking through the bumper.

Now, I own a 1998 Honda Civic Illusion, 1.4litre engine. I'm no boy racer, I bought it because Honda have legendry reliability and because it was the only car I could afford at the time (£1400). The car its self is in insurance category 7 (!) so fully comp insurance was 5 pounds cheaper than the actual cost of the car(cheapest quote i could get). So, Third party fire & theft was half that much, so i plummed for that instead. My reasoning being, I planned to buy a better car in the new year and it didn't seem very smart to pay that much on what was in their eyes a cheap car.

Rather annoyingly, 2 weeks ago I got a stone chip kicked up at my windscreen which actually prodcued a 14 inch crack. No fully comp, so I paid £125 to have that replaced. Infact, just last week, I bougth a set of 4 brand new Continental tyres for it (glad I did, accident might have been much worse without the grip).

Because there's no independent witnesses, and because I have only third party cover, my insurance company don't care very much, likely due to the fact it does seem to them i just ran into the back of another car despite my explaining it to them the best i could.

It's extremely frustrating because I know it wasn't 100% my fault, i've yeat to hear a good explanation of why I came face to bumper with a near stationary vehicle and what happened to make it stop, why the car infront of me had to swerve (i can speculate he was too close but that doesn't really help me). In the back of my mind i also have a nagging question about why i wasn't able to stop before the impact, but the speed difference between the two cars was fairly large (before i slowed it down)

Because I don't have fully comp, I have to foot the bill unless the other pary accepts blame, which they won't. Fair enough. Except I had a quote from the garage that has serviced the car since it was first registered in 1998 (and kept it in very nice condition)... They tell me the chassis is twisted slightly due to the uneven impact and will need to be put on a jig to correct it. They estimate that to cost at least £100, plus about 8 hours labour. Then there's parts and spraying and fitting... he said he'd be surprised if it wasn't at least £2K.

That's obviousley more than the car is worth. Insultingly, he offered me £250 for it in scrap because it had new tyres (which cost me £190 last week!). he was very keen not to do any work at all.

I really don't know what to do. I live in a fairly rural area and I need my car to get to work in a reasonable amount of time. I've been taking a train and 2 busses which works out at about £12 per day at the moment and adds at least an hour to it if everythign is on time. I spent about £20/week in petrol before.

There's not many cheap cars for sale locally, but about 15 miles down the road there is a nice 2001 reg civic for £3k, insurance cat 4... even with the accident on record i can get fully comp for it for about half the cost of the vehicle, but what do i do about my existing car and insurance (and road tax?)

Any advice or suggestions at all from anyone would be appreciated. As I've said, the important thing is that nobody was hurt(i wasn't even sore but my girlfriend had a sore back for a few days) and I just want to get things sorted out as quickly as possibly.

obviousley a garage wouldn't have to pay for labour to fix the car and could replace the body work at cost, etc. With that in mind, do you think any garages would take the car in part exchange? It has a full service history, the rest of the car (including engine) are in excellent condition, its just too costly for me to fix because of the labour.

or is a second opinion warranted?
Advice needed after accident :( - T Lucas
If you do not want to do a cheap DIY repair on your Civic the best place to sell it would be Ebay,or break it and sell the parts on Ebay.
Advice needed after accident :( - AngryJonny
Get another quote. In fact, get several. Your mechanic may have quoted high to get you to sell the car to him for buttons in the knowledge that he can fix it up for a few hundred and make a tidy profit.

If you do decide to sell it and buy something else, prices are particularly low at the moment from what HJ says. You can switch your existing insurance over to the new car (and settle the difference) and send the road tax back for a refund on however many full months there are left on it.
Advice needed after accident :( - Simon (Anne\'s Other Half)
If you work in York and need a cheap car...

Peugeot 106 Diesel
N Reg
1 lady owner
FSH
Ex. Cond
Mileage 71828
Very economical to run.

Taxed end Jan 06
MOT due August 06

Price £875

Found on the intranet of a large York company....
Not mine, or anything to do with me.
Will happily pass on details if IRV would like them.
Advice needed after accident :( - Aprilia
I suspect your bodywork repairer was quite keen to get his hands on the car and repair it himself. It wouldn't be recorded anywhere as a damaged car and I suspect there would be an easy profit in it for him. The engine and transmission (assuming not mega-mileage) would be worth £500 alone.

Obviously I haven't seen the damage, but major chassis twist seems unlikely given the rest of the damage. I assume airbag didn't go off? It is probably just the front rail that is a bit twisted (where the bumper locates) and this would easily tug straight.

Try a cheaper repairer who will do the job with secondhand parts, or advertise it in the 'Salvage' section of your local Autotrader as a 'Non-recorded light damage for DIY repair'. Someone will buy it for a sensible price...
Advice needed after accident :( - Blue {P}
Pleased only the car was hurt anyway.

Is it possible that this woman in the Merc pulled out in front of the car in front of you, he swerved and avoided, but you were unable to stop in time to avoid hitting her?

It seems to me to be the only way that you could have hit her, if as you say, you left a decent size stopping distance between you and the car in front.

Unfortunately it seems pointless to debate what happened as without independant witnesses it sounds as though you will take all of the blame for the accident. I think the only way that you can hit someone in the back and get away with it is if they pull right out in front of you and you can't stop, but without a witness to verify that you will never be able to prove it.

Blue
Advice needed after accident :( - Xileno {P}
I can't see on the evidence given here how you can get out of this one. Unfortunately one of the costs of having a car without ABS.
Advice needed after accident :( - irv
Thanks very much everyone for your replies so far!

I'll ring round this afternoon and see what a few of the other local places say. As soon as I got back from the accident the first thing i did was a quick search for body work parts and found 2 the whole front end for a very tiny fraction of what this guy quoted me.

Aprilia - the front left rail is sticking out where the bumper shattered so you are quite correct. After watching fifth gear the other week where that stuntman crahsed an old rover at 30mph i was at first a little shocked when the airbags didn't deploy, but looking back the speed when we actually collided was well below 20mph.

I can provide a few pics of the front if anyone is interested, although they're not the best resolution:

slumber.org/~irv/car1.jpg from the front
slumber.org/~irv/car2.jpg close up of the passenger side, you can just see the front rail in the bumper
slumber.org/~irv/car3.jpg from the side

It would be a major shame to have to break the car as it was nearly perfect, it has a highish mileage of just over 90k but thats certainly nothing for a honda. The reason i went for it over another car the dealer had (with 50kish and 2 years newer) was because there was very little play on the transmission when i took it for a test drive. also had a full service history and reciepts for the timing belt change not so long ago.

I did say it was frustrating not being able to prove it wasn't my fault, but i accept it ultimately comes down to me. the total cost of the claim will be minor so hopefully it won't hammer my premiums too much. I am fairly sure the merc was infront of the car i was behind going up the hill (when obviousley i could see more of them).
Advice needed after accident :( - Xileno {P}
Difficult to see from photos but doesn't look too bad. If the wings are undamaged (including the inner wings) and slam panel, then it's probably just cosmetic.
Advice needed after accident :( - SteVee
>>Any advice or suggestions at all from anyone would be appreciated. As I've said, the important thing is that nobody was hurt(i wasn't even sore but my girlfriend had a sore back for a few days) and I just want to get things sorted out as quickly as possibly.<<

Do you know for sure that the Mercedes driver is not claiming any injury ? I would also recommend that your g/f has her back checked out.

As for fiximg your car, I agree with what's said above.
I hope it all gets resolved quickly.
Advice needed after accident :( - irv
Do you know for sure that the Mercedes driver is not
claiming any injury ? I would also recommend that your
g/f has her back checked out.


Well, my insurance company told me the details of the claim, but i suppose its always subject to change. My girlfirend went straight to the doctors the next day, minor whiplash in her lowest vertebrae. she had a couple of days rest but has since gone back to work and is feeling much better thankfully.
I may or may not have the strongest body known to man. 2 cars have tried to finish me, none have succeded!
Advice needed after accident :( - Hawesy1982
That nagging feeling about why you weren't able to stop in time...

I had that too, a couple of weeks ago.

I was on the M1 in lane 3, in fairly standard friday evening traffic, moving at about 60mph, but prone to stopping.

In front of me was a brand new Merc AMG, tailgating the car in front of him.

As i drive a 10 year old Escort - perfectly legal tyres and brakes mind - without ABS i always make sure i leave ample space in front of me, especially when i know the car in front may have to brake suddenly.

Anyway, the car being tailgated braked fairly firmly, with the rest of the traffic. The Merc, due to being to close, had to brake harder, and subsequently stopped almost instantaneously due to the big sports brakes and ABS etc.

I'm 100% that my reactions were quick, but even though i had left a big gap, and cadence braked when the wheels locked up, i wasn't going to stop in time.

Luckily i managed to turn slightly, so i ended up next to the Merc, but just squeezed between his car and the armco.

Of course i got pointed at and shouted at by said driver, even though the situation was his doing. Unfortunately there is no solution to situations like this other than to get a more advanced car yourself.
Advice needed after accident :( - NowWheels
As i drive a 10 year old Escort - perfectly legal
tyres and brakes mind - without ABS i always make sure
i leave ample space in front of me, especially when i
know the car in front may have to brake suddenly.


Although you had intended to leave ample space, isn't the bottom line that in the end it turned out not to be adequate after all? Despite your quick reactions, you only avoided rear-ending the car in front because there was room to go alonside.

I'm not trying to be rude or critical, just to see what lessons can be learnt from your close sahve.

Isn't the lesson here that in it's too easy to underestimate how much of a gap is needed? And that a fancy car with very powerful brakes needs to be followed at a much greater distance?
Advice needed after accident :( - mfarrow
Sorry to hear about your accident. You were lucky with the insurance, my first quote was 3x what the car's worth!

A suggestion (not neccessarily what I'd do) if to buy another Civic, swap the wheels over, then sell yours on ebay as spares/repair, you'd be amazed at what some go for if you get a couple of DIY repair people/garages bidding.

It's all too easy to do: I had a couple of brown trouser moments when I got my car with its mechanical ABS. Front left would lock up, ABS released it, but didn't reapply it! Cut the belt one side as the other side's still effective.

--------------
Mike Farrow
Advice needed after accident :( - Aprilia
Looking at those pictures, the damage is not too bad. I assuming the RH wing is basically OK.

Aftermarket wings and h/lights are available quite cheaply for the Civic. I think you'll need to source s/hand bonnet and bumper from a breaker. I very much doubt that inner wings are damaged. It is very much a 'bolt on' repair. I would say the car is worth a minimum £500 to a DIY repairer or small garage, even with that mileage. Used small Hondas are quite sought-after
Advice needed after accident :( - irv
the wings are ever so slightly buckled at the front. i think the consensus was i could get away with repairing one and replacing the other. will see what the other guys have to say when they take a look at it.
Advice needed after accident :( - Hawesy1982
No Wheels i'm sure you're not trying to be rude or critical, however in this instance, i really did leave a massive gap. I am very aware that my car is inferior in its capabilities, as such the gap i leave on motorways often gets taken as a space by other cars, meaning i need to recreate the space, which then gets taken as a gap....

The simple fact is that the gulf in stopping ability between my Escort and their Merc AMG was so huge that there was nothing i could practically do to avoid the situation which occurred.

However, having said that, that incident really shook me up quite a bit, so now i will intentionally avoid following cars such as this on motorways, and will change lane to avoid it if need be. The gap i leave is still perfectly ok to absorb the hard braking of most 'normal' cars.

Anyway, sorry to partially hijack your thread irv, good luck with your repair
Advice needed after accident :( - Dwight Van Driver
Your talking about Thormanby Hill so your not a stone throw from South Kilvington just north of Thirsk.

Have a word with Richard or Paul at RWS Motor Repairers (on the right when travelling north through the village before the Upsall turn). Get their opinion and a quote.

Not connected but they did a smallish job for me in the past.

dvd
Advice needed after accident :( - looking4car
Sorry to hear about your knock, but these things happen and thankfuly nobody was hurt, and the damage is limited to some bent metal and an empty wallet.

The car looks not too bad and there is probably a nice profit in it for someone. If you're happy getting your hands dirty, running around scrapyards, swapping wheels around with your next car, keeping a dammaged car on your drive, upsetting the girlfriend and neighbours in the process then it could be you.

If like me, you're too busy and lazy for all that it might be better just to take the loss and move on. Having said that £250 sounds a bit on the low side. You could get more, but then you have to store it somewhere, and try selling it at a time when everyone is on holiday, and probably have to pay tax and insurance for it during that time. And, all for the sake of a couple of hundred quid.

The upside is that this is a good time to be buying, so what you've lost on the swings you might get back on the roundabout.

Good Luck
Advice needed after accident :( - irv
had a bit of a ring around when i should have been working...

i've found a couple of dealers with genuine honda parts, prices about 70 for a bonnet, 35 for a wing and 65 for a bumper, etc.

someone coming to have a look tomorrow, so i'm feeling a bit better.

depending on what they say about the chassis and the front rail i'll source the parts and just pay them to spray an repair.

Thanks everyone for your advice, it is much appreciated.
Advice needed after accident :( - component part
No Wheels i'm sure you're not trying to be rude or
critical, however in this instance, i really did leave a massive
gap. I am very aware that my car is inferior in
its capabilities, as such the gap i leave on motorways often
gets taken as a space by other cars, meaning i need
to recreate the space, which then gets taken as a gap....
The simple fact is that the gulf in stopping ability between
my Escort and their Merc AMG was so huge that there
was nothing i could practically do to avoid the situation which
occurred.
However, having said that, that incident really shook me up quite
a bit, so now i will intentionally avoid following cars such
as this on motorways, and will change lane to avoid it
if need be. The gap i leave is still perfectly ok
to absorb the hard braking of most 'normal' cars.
Anyway, sorry to partially hijack your thread irv, good luck with
your repair


Glad you got out of it intact and I know the feeling. But I'm with No Wheels on this one...you can't really say that there is nothing you could have practically done to avoid the situation-surely if you were a mile behind you would of been able to stop-you say you managed to squeeze alongside the Merc so you were within 1 car length of being able to stop in time, so if you had left 1 more car length of space or more like 1.5-2 to be safe you would of been able to stop. No two ways, you were driving too close and had you crashed it would be 100% your fault. It's a bit rich of the Merc driver to protest when he was driving badly but still your fault.
Advice needed after accident :( - teabelly
Had the road where you had the accident been resurfaced within the last year or so? If the weather was dry and it had been resurfaced with stone mastic asphalt then your stopping distance with a non abs car could have been up to 40% longer than you would expect. Before it beds in properly it seems to behave like a wet road. Real Story on BBC1 this week was talking about it.

As long as you are ok then that is what matters. Get your car checked over to make sure it is ok and there is nothing wrong with the brakes or suspension which might have affected your braking distance too.
teabelly
Advice needed after accident :( - Dalglish
been resurfaced within the last year or so? I

>>

imo - these are all immaterial if you take irv at his word, he says: " I was about 4 car lengths behind the car infront of me doing about 45 ".

the thinking distance alone at that speed will need about 3 to 4 car lengths. the fact that the car in front of him avoided the obstruction shows the skill of that driver.

i think with the facts as presented, irv should accept he was driving too close ( - i think he needed to be about 8 car lenghts behind at that speed), and just get on with repairing his car.

just my opinion.


Advice needed after accident :( - Dalglish
he needed to be about 8 car lenghts behind at that speed

>>


45mph = 66 feet per second

2 second rule = 66 x 2 feet = 132 feet ; i.e roughly = 10 car lengths.

Advice needed after accident :( - irv
it was between 4 and 5 rather than 3 and 4, but regardless... i was after advice on the car not who's fault it was. the skill of the driver infront of me doesn't come into it: he swerved into oncoming traffic and was lucky not to cause a massive accident. i didn't follow him for that reason. i could have taken to the embankment on the left of but i would have likely rolled the car hitting the curb at that speed. going up the hill when i could see the merc infront of him i was at least twice the distance from him as he was from th e merc.

not making excuses. the fact that i've ended up in the back of this car means i was too close in the circumstances, obviousley.

incidently, yes the road was resurfaced about a month ago. i also described my accident as "skidding" into the back of the car, not driving into it.
Advice needed after accident :( - teabelly
If it was resurfaced recently then there is a good chance that the accident was made worse by the surface if the cheap thin coat stuff with stones in was used. On a normal surface you may still have hit them but the damage may not have been so serious. I'd speak to the highways authority and find out for sure. A letter in the local paper mentioning it might also show how many other people have had incidents on it too.
teabelly
Advice needed after accident :( - Cardew
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