I wonder how many of you will agree with James May in today's Telegraph Motoring?
tinyurl.com/dsujk
In case you can't be bothered to read the whole article it is the
Citroen AX GT
Phil
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Wrong!
It's the Ford Focus Ghia Saloon in Harvest Gold.
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Last series Mercedes Benz S500L
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Mercedes S-Class - driven one regularly (320 CDI) which provides superb ride and handling, astonishing performance from a diesel that's whisper quiet as well, all the room you want, masses of toys to play with, image and, what's more, consistently returns 35-37mpg on trips.
Not many cars can even get near it for all round ability and remarkable economy for such a big vehicle.
However, one of my mates who owns it, is just about to get a new Bentley four-door so will have to do the comparisons.
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The Bentley was delivered at the weekend - apparently took nearly an hour just to check through the various options specified for inclusion.
Will be a day or two before I get a chance to give it a thorough going over....:-)
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The editor of that article has poked Mr May in the eye.
Under the picture it says:
"Cheap and cheerful: the Citroën AX GT was the best car in the world"
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If we were talking...EVER... Austin Maxi - & I'm serious!!
This vehicle was an extreemly practical, versatile & innovative, for it's time.
With a little more £$£$ & development, would have been much more of a sucess.
Currently, if you were going by the phrase...I want THAT one.. it'll be Rx8 please - in lightning yellow, with cloth, with a sunroof & chrome wheels n trim detals!!
VB
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Citroen AX GT Phil
maybe not the best but they were quite fun to drive to the limit they did handle surprisingly well and were comparitively quick for what they were...cheers...keo.
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That was JM's point - it's OK mentioning MBs but they are comparatively expensive and thirsty, same with Bentleys etc which are of course better cars in many ways. He reckoned the AX was the best compromise and issues a challenge at the end for anyone to defeat his argument.
Have to say that when my son and daughter were looking for cheap small cars a few years ago I advised against AXs because they struck me as very flimsy.
Phil
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>>Always worth going direct to manufacturer>>
It was the plastic bonnet and hatch that made them surprisingly nippy even with a small engine.
As for my mention of the Merc 320 CDI S-Class, part of the point is that it is far more efficient overall (the petrol is the same), despite its weight, than some smaller cars which don't return much better fuel consumption let alone the performance even with equally smaller power units.
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I wouldn't disagree Stuart, but I suppose JM would argue that the Merc costs about £50k (I'm guessing), does fewer mpg and has only marginally better 0-60 time and is more difficult to park(!) or something
Phil
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In the 1970s and 80s CAR used to run Best Car in the World Giant Tests. The Jag XJ12 usually won, unless a Merc S-class got in first with a new model.
LJKS thought it was the Bristol (any Bristol) until he got his beloved Honda Prelude 4WS.
It's horses for courses, but you have to admit that the AX was the sort of car that could do almost anything, and still come back for more.
Personlly I would have thought the Mark I Golf GTi 1.8 (facelift version) was the best. That had class.
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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>>does fewer mpg and has only marginally better 0-60 time >>
True, but if you take them individually as a ratio between the weight of the Merc and the weight of the AX, then the German product beats it hands down. The same would apply to a big BMW.
As for parking, the Merc has those neat little circles in the bumpers...:-)
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Again, I don't disagree, but the Merc costs £50k and the AX cost about £9k (or one today about 50p!!) which means the Merc cannot even be considered as the best car for 90% of the population - too expensive (much as we would like one!!)
Phil
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>>the Merc cannot even be considered as the best car for 90% of the population - too expensive (much as we would like one!!)>>
I haven't read May's piece yet but your thread is entitled "Best car in the world?" ....:-)
By the way what a wonderfully down to earth, incredibly laid back person Mr May proves. Love his dry sense of humour too.
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"I haven't read May's piece yet but your thread is entitled "Best car in the world?" ....:-)"
You need to otherwise you won't see what he is arguing - and why he doesn't choose the Merc or Bentley. Whether you will agree with him is another matter!! I don't agree with him!!
Phil
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>>You need to otherwise you won't see what he is arguing >>
I've had a look at it now and quite see much of the sense in his argument.
But I'll still stick to my preference even though I've driven many an AX - never felt safe in one and I'd rather be in a Merc than an AX if the worse came to the worse...:-)
You could also perhaps consider that the new Toyota/Citroen/Peugeot 107 etc superminis are probably a modern day version of the AX.
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We used to have a customer who had an AX GT, and delivering her car back after we had serviced it was a pleasure.
I don't normally enjoy driving French cars, they usually just feel odd to me, but the responsive AX was a different matter, it went and handled well, and if you excused the cheap interior was an OK car.
It was when, in quick succession the boot glass failed, popping the boot open with the gas struts while the car was parked, and the engine failed, needing new liners that I was glad it was a customer's car rather than mine!
I'm sure that BH will suggest that all of James May's points would apply equally well to the Pug 205.
For my vote, I would suggest an early 80's BMW 323i. I know that it costs more than the AX, but I haven't driven another (road) car that comes near it for sheer driving enjoyment.
Number_Cruncher
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Fantastic car
"if you have £100,000 burning a hole in your bank balance, and perhaps another £10,000 or so for the more desirable accessories (almost Bentley Continental money), the S600 is still a contender for ?Best Car in the World?."
You wouldn't have a spare £90,000 you could lend me would you HJ????!!!
Phil
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I can believe it, but then I'm sympathetic to the marque. If we're on about value for money, consider the Visa GT which was roomy and more comfortable for me than the AX. It had a 1.4 engine with 2 fat solex carbs you could run a ferret down. I commuted 140 miles a day in one for over a year and it was a hoot. It would corner, too if you weren't upset by the angle of lean.
James May writes a good column, usually.
Hawkeye
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Stranger in a strange land
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Always going to be a subjective err, subject, but what exactly is the criteria for the best car in the world?
I suppose its a car that does all things ( ride, comfort, handling, performance, economy etc)very good or excellent, which rules out Bentleys et al as they have poor economy!
I've not owned, or even been in one, but from what I read and hear, BMW 530D (or even the petrol equivalent) should be in the running?
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I thought the answer was obvious.
Mondeo TDCI
I'll get my coat.
madf
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Six months ago I would have argued an old shape 5 series diesel. I have been using the office hack since then, and applying Mr May's logic would therefore propose the Honda Civic Hybrid.
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How can a thread get this long without somebody mentioning the Citroen C5?
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According to JM the AX "was short and had small overhangs, so it was wieldy and easy to park. Lightness made it fun to drive; it was perky and its responses were immediate, like they are in a small sports car."
Just like the C5??
Phil
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E39 BMW 5 Series or Wwhatever Mercedes S Class.
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"E39 BMW 5 Series or Whatever Mercedes S Class."
For £9000 brand new?
Why am I arguing on behalf of James May, with whom I don't agree?
Enough
Phil
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I think Mr May has been taking lessons in contentiousness from a certain TV colleague. Having said that I once owned an AX GT and it was fantastic fun. Pinsharp handling, lightweight (no need for power steering), economical and when the second choke on the carburettor opened, the sucking noise that accompanied it heralded a kick in the backside like a turbo cutting in. I often outran much more sporting - and expensive - machinery which I found hugely enjoyable. Eventually I swapped it for an AX GTI which was such a dreadful disappointment (slower, rougher, thirstier and less agile) that I only kept it for a couple of months.
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Of cars in production,IMHO its the Audi A8 6.0 litre.Fortunate to drive one earlier this year.Awesome
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Even the AX's best friend would say it loses out in terms of refinement and especailly crashworthiness.
However it's amazing how few cars can beat in terms of everything else. I certainly enjoyed the 60mpg from the 1 litre petrol AX, but my vote goes to the Peugeot 106 Rallye - much more fun to drive and (not saying much) more refined.
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