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Ford Mondeo III (2000 - 2007) - seat vibration on motorway  
seat vibration on motorway - andy30
hi,

just got myself a 51 reg low mileage (20k) mondeo.

only issue i have is the seats and steering wheel vibrates on the motorway at 70 and over.

all wheels have been balanced so i'm kind of stuck.

it has to be the wheels at that mileage i would of thought?

any ideas as i did notice 1 wheel had 2 30 gram weights on one side and a 30 on the other side, can that really make a difference?

Edited by Pugugly on 18/08/2008 at 18:03

Tags: owning wheels and tyres seats steering

mondeo seat vibration on motorway - cheddar
Might be worth having them rebalanced. Otherwise has it been standing around for a long time, low mileage indicates it could have been, if so the tyres could be flat spotted.
mondeo seat vibration on motorway - andy30
well front 2 are new tyres.

back 2 aren't though

what about the weights is that normal to have 60g plus on a side unless there's a problem?
mondeo seat vibration on motorway - Number_Cruncher
Some possibilities,

1) No amount of balancing will make a buckled or deformed tyre ride smoothly. If you are confident that you can do it safely, jack up each corner of the car, and spin the wheel - make sure each runs true. Check carefully for bulges in the sidewall.

2) Any flat spotting should be seen during step 1, and *may* be reduced by going on a longer run, and getting the tyres warm, so that they can return to their previous 'round' shape.

3) Tyres are usually marked at their light spot - usually a red dot. This should be positioned near the valve during fitting to reduce the need for balance weights. Check to see if your tyres were fitted properly.

4) 60g is quite a bit - although not unknown. This is the tyre I would check out most thoroughly.

5) If all the above get you nowhere, make a note of where the balance weights are for each wheel. Take them all off. Take your car and have them all balanced again. See if the new weights go back where the old weights were removed from.

Number_Cruncher
mondeo seat vibration on motorway - Dynamic Dave
well front 2 are new tyres.


It's not uncommon for new tyres to slip round on their rims due to the lubricant the garage use when fitting a new tyre. Might pay to have them re-checked when they've bedded themselves in.
mondeo seat vibration on motorway - andy30
hi again,
i'm currently in the process of trying every wheel with the spare (mondeo has full size spare).

so far i have tried the 60g one with the sapre and it was the same ride, shame. I also span it when jacked up and it wasn't deformed.

then a rear (older tyre) and it was the same ride.

so the other left to check.

bear in mind the seats especially the upright back is vibrating/wobbling at 60 and above getting worse the higher you go.

i'm right in thinking a new car wouldn't do this at 100mph?



mondeo seat vibration on motorway - Victorbox
The only time I've had exactly the symptoms you describe was with old tyres. Worn suspension joints won't help either. Although they looked perfect and were balanced the two rear tyres has gone out of round probably simply due to old age. In my case new tyres & the vibration was gone.
mondeo seat vibration on motorway - frostbite
I had the same symptoms with nearly new tyres on a (then) recently purchased Granada Scorpio.

It was simply down to the cheap (Tigar) tyres self-oscillating at that speed and they had to be replaced.
mondeo seat vibration on motorway - andy30
funnily enough they put what i would class as cheap SUNNY tyres?

anyone heard of them?
mondeo seat vibration on motorway - Victorbox
Sunny tyres appears to be South China Tyre & Rubber Co. www.cec-ceda.org.cn/english_version/enterprises%20...m

Although anything Chinese these days seems to mean better engineering than the Germans!
mondeo seat vibration on motorway - andy30
hi,

current situation is i've checked 3 wheels and none are buckled or out of shape.

problem is, the problem isn't going when putting the spare on, no change what so ever, as i have 2 older tyres and 2 new cheap brand ones, but only 1 spare??

so not sure how i'm going to narrow it down between the 2 potential problems
mondeo seat vibration on motorway - Number_Cruncher
i've checked 3 wheels...


Keep going, check all 4. I think the substitution testing method you are using is a good idea.

Number_Cruncher
mondeo seat vibration on motorway - andy30
not good news

after swapping out all 4 wheels the problem is still there, none are visibly buckled or out of shape.

so now i'm stuck.

I have 2 new cheap tyres and 2 4 year old tyres and have only done 20k

But 1 spare!!!!
mondeo seat vibration on motorway - Number_Cruncher
You have arrived at step 5 of my earlier plan - unlucky! I had hoped that you wouldn't get this far and still have the fault!

If possible, find a place that can balance your tyres on the car, i.e., with the wheel and hub rotating just as it while driving. Sometimes this process can find another rotating component that is out of balance, when used in conjunction with ordinary balancing. You balance the wheel normally, off the car, then spin it up on the car. If you then find that an out of balance condition, something else that is rotating is out of balance.

This is a more diagnostic procedure than most tyre places will be staffed for, so I think you will most likely be able to get this done at a well staffed and equipped independent garage.

Beyond this, the other fault I have seen a time or two is a bent driveshaft. This can be checked for visually, again by spinning the hub, and watching the shaft.

I hope this helps you sort out the fault.

Number_Cruncher
mondeo seat vibration on motorway - andy30
to your first suggestion, are you implying something none wheel related is spinning, as i've substituted each wheel.

we are getting to the realms of actual car problems now not wheels.



mondeo seat vibration on motorway - Number_Cruncher
Hi Andy,

By swapping your tyres one by one for the spare, you have ruled out the possibility that *one* tyre is causing the problem. Unless, of course, your spare was badly out of balance as well!.

You have carefully, visually, checked all your tyres for deformation that could result in uneven running.

There is still the possibility that the two older tyres are flat-spotted, as Cheddar suggests above, although I would have hoped that you would have seen that while inspecting the tyres.

I did deal with a Cortina (you can tell how far back in time I'm going) with about* 1mm of run out on one of the steel wheels, which was causing a vibration at speed. As the owner was a particularly style concious individual, we fixed the problem by swapping to alloys!

*I say about because we checked it using nothing more than an axle stand, a pencil, and rule!

Although it is a possibility that something else rotating is causing the problem, this is really quite unusual in a front wheel drive car. With RWD, there is a long prop-shaft which introduces a number of opportunities for vibration problems.

Wheels and tyres usually bear the brunt of any damage due to potholes and kerbing, and are a good place to check carefully.

It is not unknown for balancing to be in error.

Number_Cruncher

mondeo seat vibration on motorway - andy30
just to rule out, for flat spotting I should probably look at the top or bottom of tyre and spin it. the reason I ask is i might of saw something but it was on all 4 so never thought anything of it.

by the way the sunny sn3900 new tyres i have are budget, but branded with a speed rating of V so hopefully ok, I saw them on another website at £50 each.
mondeo seat vibration on motorway - dk54
depending on how bad the tyre/wheel is ie normaly fronts only cause steering vibration..rears being off balance will cause body to shake but not affect the steering.So it is possible for a bad tyre/wheel on front and back to cause the problem together.But another possible is drive shaft out of balance this will affect both
--
Steve
mondeo seat vibration on motorway - andy30
i think i may have made some progress, put the older quality tyres on the front, and 1 new cheapo and 1 spare (quality) on back

i noticed no steering wheel vibration at 75pmh but the passenger seat was vibrating at 75mph.

i'm thinking its the cheapo tyres or the wheels on the cheapo's
this is because the front quality one have hardly any weights on a 15g on one side and nothing on the other, and on the other wheel a 20g and nothing on the other side.

But, on the cheapo's one had a 40g and 30g and the other wheel has 60g and 30g

ie quality tyres spin properly.

think i'm barking up the right tree?
mondeo seat vibration on motorway - Number_Cruncher
Yes, I think you are onto something - I agree with Steve's comments about the location of imbalanced tyres and the resulting type of vibration given above.

Are you considering ditching the cheap tyres?

Number_Cruncher
mondeo seat vibration on motorway - Dynamic Dave
i noticed no steering wheel vibration at 75pmh but the passenger seat was vibrating at 75mph.


That would indicate that one or both rear tyres are out of balance, and nothing wrong with the front tyres.
mondeo seat vibration on motorway - MW
When you say all the wheels have been balanced....is that by you, recently? If not, the easiest, and cheapest option is to get all 4 balanced with old weights on , to show up any problems, and then with new weights. Until you do this you could spend ages investigating problems that are balance problems. If the cheap tyres are old, get decent ones, with the balancing thrown in. A good £40 computer steering geometry check, front and back might also help.
mondeo seat vibration on motorway - andy30
update.

after diagnosing either the back cheapo's or the spare, i went down to quick fit for a wheel balancing.

they did the cheapo on with the 30g weights and 60g weight on the other side, span it, not that quick like but span in and it read 15 and 20, then took them off span it and it read 30 and 65, put 30 and 60 on and span it and read 15 and 20 again.

they said straight away thats not right and said it was the tyre as they would.

I kind of agreed and said how much for your cheapest brand?

firestone...........£96 fitted.............. i passed out

just said it was alright i'll get one from elsewhere, what do you think definitley get a new tyre and its not the rim?
mondeo seat vibration on motorway - cheddar
What model Mondeo? What size tyres?
mondeo seat vibration on motorway - Number_Cruncher
------8<--------

they did the cheapo on with the 30g weights and 60g weight on the other side, span it, not that quick like but span in and it read 15 and 20, then took them off span it and it read 30 and 65, put 30 and 60 on and span it and read 15 and 20 again.

------8<--------


I think it is possible that the large balance weights were put in slightly the wrong location on the periphery of the rim. Although the balancing machine indicates where the weights should go, I have found that the best results are obtained by iteratively moving the weights along a little from their initial indicated position. Particularly with larger imbalances, the machines don't tend to get it right first time.*

While an accurate balancing machine is a pre-requisite to obtaining a well balanced wheel, a patient, intelligent person operating the machine is just as important. This is true in so many areas of motor vehicle repair and servicing.


* Determining where to attach the weights is partially based upon a measurement of phase. The usual zero-crossing method used by the machines is quite error prone, while the estimation of amplitude (i.e. how much mass to add) is quite robust in comparison.

Number_Cruncher
mondeo seat vibration on motorway - dk54
>>I think it is possible that the large balance weights were put in slightly the wrong location on the periphery of the rim. Although the balancing machine indicates where the weights should go, I have found that the best results are obtained by iteratively moving the weights along a little from their initial indicated position. Particularly with larger imbalances, the machines don't tend to get it right first time.*

I would agree with that.Very often the weights are located in the wrong place.But put it down to fitter being in a hurry?
--
Steve
mondeo seat vibration on motorway - andy30
205 55 16

that is quite a bit of weight to have out of place like.

remember though even with this wheel off and the other new cheapo wheel on the problem was still there.

mondeo seat vibration on motorway - cheddar
Should be about £65 each.
mondeo seat vibration on motorway - AngryJonny
Quick check on Kwik Fit's web site shows (assuming V speed rating) prices ranging from £52 to £100 per corner with no brand I've heard of coming in at less than £90.
mondeo seat vibration on motorway - David Horn
I used Kwik Fit tyres on the front once, and they vibrated and the car pulled to the left. Put them on the back and problem solved. Would not recommend them.

Currently have Toyo tyres, which were fitted at 50 quid a corner.
mondeo seat vibration on motorway - cheddar
Quick check on Kwik Fit's web site shows (assuming V speed
rating) prices ranging from £52 to £100 per corner with no
brand I've heard of coming in at less than £90.


blackcircles.com have P6000's and NCT5's on offer iro £70 otherwise you are right, £90 seems about right.

Have tyres gone up recently?, I paid £360 for four 205/50/17 Bridgetones a year ago though cannot see anything similar for less than £120 each today.
mondeo seat vibration on motorway - andy30
online you can get them for £70 upwards, i just have, goodyear NCT at £68 incl fitting

only 1 like.

I new kwik fit's weren't right and i quite simply wasn't going to pay it.
mondeo seat vibration on motorway - Blue {P}
Hankooks are pretty cheap but were put on as a factory fit tyre on the new Mondeo for a while.

I've stuck them on my 3 series and found them to be superb, the handling was transformed when compared with the ones that were on originally (which admittedly were pretty rubbish)

Blue
mondeo seat vibration on motorway - andy30
well i had the tyre replaced last night, not the best news though

i thought it was fixed when i went out last night, no noticebale vibrarion on the back of the seats.

but this morning it was practically the same as normal, maybe slightly better.

i watching him balance the goodyear, 25g on one side 20 on the other, and it read 0 and 0

so i'm only left with the spare i got from the boot which already has weights on (presume its balanced)

and the 2 fronts which are old tyres but provide no vibration through the steering wheel.

i thought about the tyres being warm but it was still bad when i got to work this morning (half hour drive)

i'm pretty disappointed now.
mondeo seat vibration on motorway - johnsnc
I would put both the OK front wheel tyres on the back and put the suspect pair on the front . I think it is easier to diagnose whether the problem is balancing when it is coming through the steering wheel rather than through the seat . The fronts seem to be OK since you don't report any problem through the steering. If the problem persists with the "good wheel/tyres" on the back then it is probably a damaged suspension component or the like rather than wheel/tyre.

HTH .
mondeo seat vibration on motorway - andy30
but if i stick the backs on the front i might get a vibration through wheel and seats?

ie the bad back on put on the front would provide wheel and seat vibrations presumabley?

instead of just back not allowing wheel to vibrate?
mondeo seat vibration on motorway - johnsnc
And what might you deduce if with the rears on the front you have no vibration through the steering, but still some through the seat ? To me that what mean the problem is with the rear suspension and not the wheel/tyre combination.
Equally if you get bad vibration through the steering you will know that the wheel/tyre combination now on the front still appear to have some sort of balancing issue. I hope that information would move you forward as you try to track the root cause(s) on this down.
mondeo seat vibration on motorway - andy30
nah i kind of already know that, it was vibrating through the wheel i moved fronts to back and it stopped vibrating the wheel.

unless i have bad wheels and suspension, but i'm never going to be able to diagnose that.

and when the wheel was the seats were too.

great eh??
mondeo seat vibration on motorway - andy30
right oh.....this is dragging isn't it.

spare has been checked and is balanced.

swapped fronts to rear and rears to front.

plan is i'll be out tommorrow then i'll know:

1. if the steering wheel vibrates and seats possibly then its the wheels or a wheel( this should have already been diagnosed but we'll see)

2. if just the seats vibrate its a mechanical problem back or front(i would suspect back)

mondeo seat vibration on motorway - frostbite
Don't really like to suggest this, but, could it be the car has been in an accident and the geometry has been upset?
mondeo seat vibration on motorway - andy30
well its not good.

swapped the fronts to the back and its exactly the same, no vibration through wheel but a bit through the seats.

well its not exactly the same, as the car is veering to the left slighty now, the tread wear on the fronts (now back) were uneven like. Outside was worn more than inside on both.

this probably isn't related though is it?

i'm at a loss now.

any ideas?
mondeo seat vibration on motorway - cheddar
Suggest all four tyres need to be replaced, or if you have done two already then do the other two, have the wheels checked for trueness at the same time.

Otherwise do you know a friendly Ford dealer who would lend you a set of wheels of a forecourt car, if it still exhibited the problem with diferrent wheels and tyres then other areas would need to be investigated.
mondeo seat vibration on motorway - andy30
well the 2 older tyres only have 2-3mm on the more worn outer sides.

but its all costing too much, cos if that doesn't work, what next?

even if the tyres/wheels balance ok i can still have a bad wheel/tyre causing this can i?
mondeo seat vibration on motorway - John S
Yes, you can, as balance doesn't correct for buckled wheeels or out of round or distorted tyres. It could be one of the tyres is going out of round when at speed.

JS
mondeo seat vibration on motorway - dk54
As a matter of interest.Try driving at low speed ie around 10/15 mph,possibly up to 20mph watch front of car.distorted tread pattern to sidewall will cause car to sway from side to side regularly.which is often missed.Tread pattern can be out of line but not noticed ie your prob?
--
Steve
mondeo seat vibration on motorway - Christastrophy
Hi there guys I've just bought a 2001 diesel focus with a really horrible vibration through the whole car above 65 mph on acceleration but on over run its fine. On quick inspection before buying the car I realised the inner CV joint is completely worn out. As you accelerate the drive shaft twists in the cv putting the whole drive shaft out of balance and causing the vibration, when the throttle is released the drive shaft returns to its centre position in the cv and the car is fine.
mondeo seat vibration on motorway - Glee
I didn't want to start a new thread for the same sort of problem..

I started getting fairly serious vibrations when accelerating from 30 to 65 and calms down after this...

I know I smacked the front passenger wheel about 4 weeks ago..

Jacked up the car tonight and gave the wheel a spin (I'm unsure if the technical terms)

The bar/shaft that turns the wheel is making a funny noise at the joint at the engine.....

I'm looking for advice on what's broken and cost of replacement???

Crapping it as I've just spent £330 on tyres and service..
Thanks

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