So the other day, Saturday I think, my heavily pregnant wife was driving though Ipanema which is normally a fairly well-behaved part of town - at least by Brazilian standards.
Two cars in front of her but one lane over and at the front of the queue, is a fairly normal looking saloon car. Going by her description, probably a Vectra or similar, and the lights are red.
Suddenly a police car without lights or siren, squeezes past Adriana's car, pulls up next to the other car, two policeman leap out and start firing their guns into the guy in the passenger seat.
At this point the target car jumps the lights and screams off around the corner out of sight. The policeman get back in their car and drive off at a normal pace in the other direction.
And you lot worry about speed cameras !!!!!
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Mark,
Too surreal to contemplate ... I take it you're not winding us up, SWMBO isn't on medication is she :o)
Growler probably has more like this (please).
Stu.
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No, not a wind up.
Actually, in all fairness, the reason it had such an effect on my wife is that this is the first time she has actually seen something like this, rather than being told about it or getting it from the media.
I suspect that now its long gone, she feels a certain sense of satisfaction actually seeing what so many other people talk about.
I have seen two shoot outs and the immediate aftermath of a couple of others.
M.
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Mark,
This afternoon on Channel 5 I've spotted a 30 min program about Julian Clary in Rio. It's called Cleo Worldwide and on at 5pm.
I think this is a magazine type time filling prog but will look in with some interest because of your connection.
Wonder how Rio will suit Julian Clary, not sure you will know him and any comment is meaningless if not!
David
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> Wonder how Rio will suit Julian Clary, not sure you will know
> him and any comment is meaningless if not!
Depends where he goes. There are some clubs here which would find him fairly normal and uninteresting. At Carnival they have the Gay & Transvestite Ball. I saw it described as "the party where the women are women and most of the men are too".
Certainly in the more outrageous places here he would do badly. THere are many like Clary but they don't find their own behaviour amusing, camp or something for the entertainment of others.
As with any other place here, they have pretty blunt ways of making displeasure felt.
Keep your eyes out for the program called "Lonely Planet". Its a British production so I would assuem it would show up over their. One of the travellers is called Ian and he did a very interesting and representative two week visit to Rio.
There is another show called The Travellers, which I think is American. They also did a trip to Rio. I wouldn't bother wathcing it.
>
> David
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I once had to replace a side window and plug a door panel after my car was caught in police/bandit crossfire. Bizarrely, I found the bullet which had gone through the door embedded in the passenger seat, but never found the one which went through the window...
The joys of expat living.
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ian (cape town) wrote:
>
> I once had to replace a side window and plug a door panel
> after my car was caught in police/bandit crossfire.
> Bizarrely, I found the bullet which had gone through the door
> embedded in the passenger seat, but never found the one which
> went through the window...
I hope the car was empty at the time!
> The joys of expat living.
And how blase you'll be when you get back home. We had an incident at my last place of work which badly upset one member of staff, but the young S.African's reaction was 'It was only a chunk of wood he was holding, not a gun'!
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Sue wrote:
>
>
> I hope the car was empty at the time!
parked, fortunately! still locked when I returned to the "crime scene" swarming with plod. Hence the confusion re the bullet.
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Mark,
Did we ever get an answer to your . . .
"Quem gosta de carros pequenos é uma dentista" ... ?
Stu.
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No. Everybody maintains I made a mistake in my reading of it. Most people say that my portuguese is corrupted form spending too much time speaking spanish !!
Therefore, since normal commuting has restarted I am looking out for the truck every night until I see it. I've seen it two or three times so I have high hopes.
If it still says the same, then I am going to stop the driver and if he doesn't shoot me, demand an explanation.
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Mark, are you sure the guys from the unmarked car were real cops? Wouldn't be too difficult to get a fake cop's uniform knocked up at a tailors, as is common in Malaysia and now (from Growler), it seems, The Phillipines.
HJ
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Absolutely not sure at all.
I would think it unlikely since the real cops would object to the loss of what was at the least recreation and at most paid enterprise.
I think I know who was shot - Ipanema is controlled by a very strong street mafia. Much more brutal and unsophisticated idea than normal types of organised crime. However, a little while ago they beat and killed a guy who was reputed to have friends - I suspect that it was related.
However, if I see them shooting someone again I will run up and ask for their credentials !! Well, either that or go and have a beer and just say I did !
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Brill, you asked...so ...yes... we have had some X'mas fun here too. I live in an upper middle-class sub-division, i.e. an extensive residential area composed of gated villages, all with their own security gates, on the outskirts of Manila. On December 23rd a young TV starlet and her paramour were driving home from a night out in the city through my sub-division to get to his, or maybe hers. We are not told what state they were in, but it appears sober. The young driver was folowing another car, when an oncoming vehice refused to dip its lights (nothing unusual in that here). Our starlet's pal, not unreasonably it seems, if we are to believe the story, flashed his own light s repeatedly without result at the offender. The reflections of this activity in the mirror of the car in front. caused that individual to get extremely annoyed. He allowed the young man's car to overtake, then followed it to the gates of the community where he lived. An altercation then ensued, with firearms being waved and threats being made.
Nothing untoward happened.
That is until the next night, when the offendee lay in wait for the offender. When said lad drove out, again with girlfriend, the fellow leapt out of his car and sent a hail of bullets into the windshield of the young man's, killing the starlet outright. Let us remind ourselves of what started this -- a very minor bit of lamp flashing.
All this while I was happily watching the Springsteen concert on HBO about 2 km away. I passed by next a.m. and the shot-at car was still there with police tape around it and blood down the front of the bonnet. The fabled Filipino amour propre often ends up with this kind of thing.
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Living in Colombia some years ago, you were advised not to stop if flagged down by someone at the scene of an 'accident', with a dummy or person lying in the road. Chances were that hoods were lurking nearby to turn you over. Driving home into Bogota from a coutry road late one night, my father chanced upon such a scene. I'll never forget the rather solid thump as he floored it and we ran over whatever was in the road....the cops were't in the slightest bothered. Life was (and still is) cheap.
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Absolutely. In the third world never stop if you hit/run over someone. It may be a ploy as suggested or if real you wil likely be mobbed or else witnesses will be paid to make up statements againbst you. Police can often be bribed to write a report favoring the victim and incriminating you.
If you are seen or think you are, then report at the next police station.
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if you think uk police are lilly white try a read of
forums.delphiforums.com/Proliberate/messages/
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I don't think they are lily-white, but I will not read your link.
There are many things worth criticising about the UK and its police force, but until you have lived with a police force like this, or others in South America, or in other parts of the world if Growler is to be believed, you know not of what you speak.
My wife, as a foreigner, has dealt with police in the UK who have been respectful and helpful, and in times of need, supportive. I have, personally, never found them to be less than honest and at least, however distasteful to me, doing their job.
Your mileage may differ, but I am quite happy with my dealings with the UK police and have had occasion to be thankful for how they have treated my wife.
You don't worry about being shot, robbed, beaten or raped by english police - in other countries this is not the exception, it is the norm.
I think it was Andrew who replied as a policeman, and I apologise if I mis-remember the name, however, thank you to you and your colleagues who have never treated me illegally and rarely without courtesy. I wouldn't change my job for yours.
I think police bashing has become a sport for all those people who are prevented from doing something they want to do, and exactly the time they want to do it irrespective of what is going on around them.
Sitting back and waiting for abuse.......
Mark.
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actually i was an expat for many years, and have wide experience of many police forces throughout the world
yea the uk isnt the worst, but it isnt no where near the best either
and i think you fail to grasp how bad some forces here have become
just cos the local hospital is probably better than what the poor people in brazil have access to, doesnt mean that im not furious at the fact people are dying for the lack of simple clean medical care in the sham of an nhs
however i DO try to praise those orgnisations that perform well
uk police are "bashed" because (even by the admission of many junior officers) they are screwing up and getting worse
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Purely out of curiosity, where were you an expat ?
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new zealand
usa (various bits)
canada
italy
belgium
and quite a while flying from one hotel to another for a few weeks each so most continents
i know you think youre the only person on the planet who is or has been an expat
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Crazed,
there will be good police and bad police everywhere. We know some of HM's finest have a history of not playing by the rules, but I'm sure they are the exception to the rule.
My experience in certain neighbouring states (and occasionally here) is that anybody in a semi-decent (or foreign) car is nailed on any pretext, as overloaded unroadworthy rattle-traps drive by ...
Only an on-the-spot cash payment will do... Seasoned travellers carry a wad of small denomination US$, to grease their way...
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> i know you think youre the only person on the planet who is or has been an expat
Rather that than being a current-prat. Oh, I'm sorry, that was a typo, I meant, of course, current-pat. Oops.
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come home
drive on a uk licence
spend all your savings (so you depend on your income)
and get a job that demands resonable high milage driving
get the best advanced driving training you can before you start
and see how long it takes before you become disillusioned with our traffic police
or
try living in a dodgy neighbourhood and intervening when the local thugs are beating up someone, "sorry we carnt intervene those lads fathers are local gangland criminals we have to be very sensitive how we police those families"
see how happy you become ?
mmm name calling, gosh thats adult debate eh?
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> i know you think youre the only person on the planet who is or has been an expat
> mmm name calling, gosh thats adult debate eh?
No, but then I couldn't see where your reply to a reasonable question required that I should worry about the maturity of my reply.
> come home
> drive on a uk licence
> spend all your savings (so you depend on your income)
> and get a job that demands resonable high milage driving
> get the best advanced driving training you can before you start
> and see how long it takes before you become disillusioned
> with our traffic police
Last time I was stopped by the UK Police for an offence was about two years ago. Last time I had an accident in the UK and the Police were in attendance was about a year ago. Last time I had any dealings with them was in New Scotland Yard about 6 weeks ago. Last time my wife dealt with them was within the last year.
In all cases I found them to be courteous, correct, efficient and supportive, albeit I didn't appreciate the ticket too much. However, I have a sneaking feeling that it wasn't the Policeman who made the law.
As I said earlier, your mileage may differ. However, I am entitled to my opinion and my opinion is that the UK Police Force is, overall, excellent.
BTW, not that I have any intention of spending all my savings, but why would that make a difference anyway ?
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Well Said Mark,
I also have had nothing but fair encounters with UK Police... Even when I did not agree with them. I just do not understand the bashing that they get from some of the posters on this forum.
As when I was rear ended while waiting for oncoming traffic to make a right turn... Clear cut case but the west Mercia Police would not give the chap who hit me a Ticket as therr were no others who saw it and He said I would not be able to come to court if it was disputed...
What made me realy mad was that AMEX gave the rental firm 2500 quid for the repairs and did not go after the mans insurance... they said it was not worth the paper work expense for them and they just pay anything under $5,000 I found that amazing and a sad comment on our times
~R
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Indeed, Randolph.
I have never had a problem with HM constabulary - the rules are simple: Be polite, and you will get politeness in return.
Our local boys in blue have the same attitude, up to a point.
saves a lot of heartache in the end.
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Having encountered UK police in traffic accident situations twice in my life their atitude and behavior would support the comments above, entirley professional and courteous as required but still remaining task-oriented.
By contrast many third world police are feared and despised and as often at the root of organised crime as against it.
UNfortunately for the UK police perhaps they are let down by a system which means their primary interface with the motoring public is on pettifogging issues which are contentious and resented by an already over-regulated populace (I speak only as a visitor), which resentment is projected on them personally as an organisation.
This must make it doubly hard for them to do their jobs, and you know what they say about not judging a man till you've walked a mile in his shoes.
From what I have seen of UK police, you get a fair crack from them. Where I live, time in a cell for a local means you'll get a beating or worse and forget ever seeing your watch or wallet again. In a traffic accident as a foreigner you're automatically in the wrong and the only question is how much in the wrong expressed in cash.
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Mark (Brazil), I have to disagree with you. You really should visit the link provided by Mr Idiot. It certainly explains a lot about Mr Idiot's attitude.
Let's face it, I've made my comments about the police in this forum, largely based around the fact that I've suffered thirteen ( I think ) crimes against me, for which no-one has ever been arrested, while they have managed to get me for speeding with no apparent difficulty.
However, to believe that the Police in the UK are on a par with those in the third world is a joke. When I visited Mexico on business, the attitude was that one of the worst things that could happen to anyone was to end up in the hands of the Police.
So, Mr Idiot, get a sense of proportion.
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Vin,
I visited the link only because you mentioned it. Sorry I've given it another hit really.
That's not a website but a personal message board with only 20 posts over the past couple of weeks. I guess 75% of the posts are from those behind the page and there are perhaps two other contributors.
The whole thing is a personal crusade based on facts we will never fully know and that are likely to be reported in a very one-sided manner.
David
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well try a few more web sites if youre interested in a more balanced view
i certainly think the system where the pca (police complaints authrority) is
i) a quango appointed by placemen
ii) unable to "accept" complaints where the complained about force disagrees that there is a vlaid complaint
does any of us much justice
i support the good coppers out there doing their best in hard circumstances
the p**s poor senior management sadens me
youd be surprised how many innocents have been shot by uk police in the last few years
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Similar things have occurred in UK too.....
Some years ago a Special Constable accompanying a regular went to stop a car on the A64 near York for a spot check. Driver, I.R.A., was armed, shot and killed the Special.
Thanks Mark for taking time to re-address the anti police feeling which comes over on this site.
DVD.
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> "... the anti police feeling which comes over on this site."
DVD, it's just a vocal minority in my opinion.
Stu.
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Great thread. But time to chill.
HJ
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>>great thread. But time to chill.
Consider me chilled. Apologies.
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Mr Idiot,
>come home
Already here.
> drive on a uk licence
Do
> spend all your savings (so you depend on your income)
> and get a job that demands resonable high milage driving
Depend on my income, drive 50K or so p.a.
> get the best advanced driving training you can before you start
Done, but dunno if it's the best. See previous threads on the benefits of driver training vs speed cameras.
> and see how long it takes before you become disillusioned with >our traffic police
But your previous comments (the ones some of us seem to have found offensive) haven't been about the Traffic Police. Instead, you've sent us onto a link about Police shootings and directed your comments in the same direction. e.g. "youd be surprised how many innocents have been shot by uk police in the last few years".
Then you come up with: "i support the good coppers out there doing their best in hard circumstances"
No you don't.
I have my arguments with some of the things the Police do, but I can also add that I have found Traffic Police to be unfailingly polite and fair in enforcing the law. They have even let me off a couple of times when they had me bang to rights. Perhaps when you meet them your utter contempt and hatred of them shows; in those circumstances, do you feel you are going to see their better side?
V
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Hi Mark.
You are in Rio, and you are married!
Rio must have changed since I was there!
Regards Rob K.
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