Vauxhall Vectra 1.7TD - cold starting problems | The Back Room Archive | Back Room Forum

Mon 31 Dec 2001 19:51

Vauxhall Vectra 1.7TD - cold starting problems - David Lamb

Hello all,

Firstly, I hope everyone here had a merry Christmas, and will go on to have a happy new year. Secondly, I'm new here, so I apologise if this question was answered only last week (I have had a look through the old material, couldn't find anything similar)

To give you some background on the problem in hand, I have a Vectra 1.7TD, I know, not the best in terms of performance, economy, ride, driving position, the list is endless, but I couldn't afford a VW :)
Generally speaking, the car has been (touch wood) mostly trouble free for the last 2 yrs, and has got me the 60mile round trip to work without issue.
It's been serviced by me for the 2 yrs I've had it, and doesn't seem to have been particularly abused prior to that. Not that the 1.7TD has much scope for abuse, but that's a different thread altogether :)

The last time I came to change the fuel filter (about 109,000 miles), when I put the new one on, the car became progressively more difficult to start, with lots of smoke when it did start. I put this down to air ingress into the fuel system due to me disturbing something, and went down to Vauxhall parts to ask them about it. Apparently, the fuel filter cover becomes porous after a few years, it's a common fault, blah, blah, blah.
So, despite my doubts on this theory, I purchased a new one (~£140, includes the heater, a filter, etc), and sure enough, this cured the problem.

well....

We're now at just under 115,000 miles, and its very cold (for all those who hadn't noticed :) ), and the car is a right pain to start in the morning (from cold, when it's been left for a substantial amount of time). Yesterday it took two attempts (4secs, 2secs) to get the thing going, and this morning (abt -4C), I cranked it for approx 10 seconds before it spluttered into life.

I appreciate I may be being overly picky, but the car usually starts very quickly indeed, and this is somewhat out of the blue.
With all the cold weather, my first thoughts were the glow plugs. The plugs are getting (according to my HQ tandy multimeter) ~10V across the bus bar (- I assume this is voltage drop because the plugs are drawing current?), until the relay clicks off. The plugs aren't warm to the touch (on the top), but I suspect this is normal, as the heat should be contained on the engine side of the plug(?)

Or is this the air in the fuel system problem again?

How can I tell the two apart?

Any diagnostic tips greatly appreciated!

Thanks for reading this *long* post!
-David L

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Mon 31 Dec 2001 20:36

Re: Vauxhall Vectra 1.7TD - cold starting problems - Eleanor Coughran

Run a chack to see how much current the glow plugs are drawing to see if they are all working, it's either that or poor injectors which at this milegae would be premature.

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Mon 31 Dec 2001 20:57

Re: Vauxhall Vectra 1.7TD - cold starting problems - Andy T

Hi,
You could try waiting another 3-4 sec. after the preheat lamp goes out to see if matters improve.

If it starts somewhat easier, then it could just be the cold snap.If it starts easier but is quite lumpy/smokey, then probably 1 or more glow plugs have give up.

The plugs can be checked individually by removing the bus bar, setting your multimeter to ohms(lowest setting) and measuring between the plug connection and earth. They should all show about 1 ohm (ish).

A more reliable method of test without actually removing the plugs is to use an ammeter to check current flow to each one.The amps drawn by each individual plug will start at around 20 to 25 amps,quickly reducing down to 10 ish amps after a few seconds.
Check the rating of your ammeter before trying! Mine is rated at 20 amps, but works fine.

Then again as you mention, it could be an air leak!
You could try parking the car facing downhill to lessen the effects of gravity letting the fuel drain back to the tank to see if that improves starting.

I hope something here can help.

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Mon 31 Dec 2001 21:08

Re: Vauxhall Vectra 1.7TD - cold starting problems - Andy T

Some owners need to be careful about doing a current check, as their cars may be using 6 volt glow plugs-in which case they cannot do a individual check using the car battery.
If each plug is linked together,then they are 12 volt plugs.

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Mon 31 Dec 2001 21:42

Re: Vauxhall Vectra 1.7TD - cold starting problems - tonyh

The fuel system on most diesels is under negative pressure so if you have a poor seal anywhere in the system it will suck in air when parked overnight. try sealing off seal and joints with grease to stop air bieng drawn in. A.T.B.TONYH

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Mon 31 Dec 2001 22:19

Re: Vauxhall Vectra 1.7TD - cold starting problems - Carl

God help you if it is the glowplugs, I had a Cavalier with the same engine. Tried two set of aftermarket glowplugs, both failed within a week.

Original fit glowplugs are NGK, looked through NGK book which states refer to dealer. Contacted NGK UK directly, apparently throughout Europe they are only sold through Vauxhall / Opel dealers under a licensing agreement.

Ho Hum, went to Vauxhall dealer, glowplugs are £40 EACH + VAT !!!!

By the way, NGK supply three different types according to engine number. I found out the hard way, after the first set of aftermarket plugs failed (in France) the car was recovered to a local Vauxhall dealer. I found out a year later that they had fitted the wrong plugs when some started to fail, only to find them gone of business.

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Tue 1 Jan 2002 00:17

cold starting - Thanks all! - David Lamb

Thanks everyone for your replies!

I'll try more intensive testing on the glow plugs, which means a new multimeter for current draw testing, mine's rated at something stupid like ~500mA, nuff said...

Thanks for the tips of how to track down / eliminate the air leak problem. I must admit, I really don't want it to be that for the amount of diag work involved in pinpointing it :)

Carl - the glowplug prices - tell me about it! When I replaced the fuel filter head, I asked my local Vauxhall dealer for the price of their glowplugs; I think they've come down to the bargain price of £36/each now. I thought he meant £36/pk 4 at first, and remarked that this was a bit pricey. Nearly fainted when he explained that was per plug :) Ended up paying £20 at halfords for the pack of four, which I'm having doubts about now!

Anyway, thanks once again everyone, and Happy New Year!
I'll let you know the results of my testing,
-David L

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Tue 1 Jan 2002 08:37

Re: Vauxhall Vectra 1.7TD - cold starting problems - David Withers

You are correct in assuming that the glow plugs heat up at their tip. The tip is virtually surrounded by a ceramic, rather like a spark plug centre electrode, so the heat tends to be concentrated there and won't travel up to the top very quickly.

I think BERU are likely to be the best make -- they have been making them for many years to a very high quality and are original equipment suppliers to diesel engine makers.

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Tue 1 Jan 2002 09:01

Re: Vauxhall Vectra 1.7TD - cold starting problems - David W

David L,

Not what you want to hear but I would change those Halfords glowplugs for some "proper" ones before you consider that area sorted.

David

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Tue 1 Jan 2002 13:30

Re: Vauxhall Vectra 1.7TD - cold starting problems - Carl

OE Fit are NGK

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Tue 1 Jan 2002 15:24

Re: Vauxhall Vectra 1.7TD - cold starting problems - David Withers

TDK are good -- I always use their spark plugs (but bought from trade outlets rather than Halfords). If TDK glowplugs are OE fit on the Vauxhall, I'm sure they must be OK. However I was employed for over 40 years in diesel engine design and I rate BERU as No.1 for glowplugs.

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Tue 1 Jan 2002 11:32

Re: Vauxhall Vectra 1.7TD - cold starting problems - John Davis

Nothing at all to do with helping David with his Vectra starting problems but, on the first day of the new year, I must comment on the reasoned, well thought out, and extremely helpful comments by all the contributors. This, surely, is what HJ intended when the back room forum opened up and, if this is to be the standard, and quality, of the discussion subjects, without that tiresome sidetracking into those non motoring and obscure threads which we seem to have seen of late, then it looks well for this forum in 2002.

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Tue 1 Jan 2002 11:57

Re: Vauxhall Vectra 1.7TD - cold starting problems - Moosh

Hear, Hear !!

Could not agree more with you.

Lets hope things turn out that way.

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Tue 1 Jan 2002 23:01

Re: Vauxhall Vectra 1.7TD - cold starting problems - David Lacey

TDK? Don't they make cassette tapes?

Dave

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Wed 2 Jan 2002 07:53

Re: Vauxhall Vectra 1.7TD - cold starting problems - David Withers

Sorry - meant NGK of course, not TDK! Probably looks the same to us in Japanese though!

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