Hi there,
Recently brought a P plate 306 DTurbo.
I was told the heater plugs were changed, but after seeing it blow out a bit of white smoke 5 mins later from a cold start.
Now I was told by a mechanic that this is normal behaviour, but im wondering whether more glow plugs need to be changed, as I think 5mins could be a bit excessive for the engine to warm up.
Any thoughts? How are the other 306 diesel drivers getting along, 5mins too to warm up?
Cheers.
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The glow plugs don't warm the engine up, they just provide heat for initial ignition, as far as I know. If they were faulty in any way at all, the engine would be difficult to start, or wouldn't start at all.
It might be taking a long time to warm up because of a faulty thermostat.
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I should have asked, is 5 minutes the time it is taking to get to normal operating temperature? I don't think this is exceedingly long.
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It is taking 5mins to warm up yup. I find it misfires for the first 20-30s , although drives fine after that.
Still, i'll be a little happier to hear that white smoke is coming out of many 306's when cold like mine.
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Five minutes is impressive to get fully up to temperature. My own Xsara (1.9TD) will misfire for 2-3 seconds on a really cold start, and pump out white smoke at idle for the next 5-10 minutes. It's not up to normal temperature until about 15 minutes of fast A-road driving.
A while ago there was a line of diesel cars at a set of traffic lights, and they all were pumping out vast clouds of white smoke. I wouldn't worry, unless the car is showing signs of HGF.
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HGF?
So is it safe to say, im just being overlycautios here? I did some reading suggesting the turbo's on the way out, although I used it easily 5 times getting off roundabouts today!
Also, I take it the Xsara uses a similar 1.9TD engine as the 306, being a PSA car?
Cheers for replies so far, putting me at ease.
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It is exactly the same engine. Also used in the Xantia. It was probably the best turbo diesel you could get in that class of car for many years.
If the misfiring is really bad on starting up, it might be a sign of glow plug trouble. It happened with our Xantia at around 80K miles. How many miles has the car done and when were the glow plugs supposed to have been changed?
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HGF == Head Gasket Failure. Vaguely recall white smoke is caused by water entering the engine somewhere or other.
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The glow plugs supposed to be changed lately, although he only mentioned 2 got changed before handing over the car. Its done 120K miles. Air filter changed, oil changed, new cambelt, and passed its MOT too.
Once settled down and a little warmer, the car is absolutely lovely, no complaints at all. Just the cold starts with misfiring thats worrying.
Just as I was posting this, I called up the garage I got it from, telling him about the misfiring whilst cold. He agrees it could be the rest of the glowplugs need changing too. So ill pop down this weekend or next week and have it seen to.
Thanks again
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"seeing it blow out a bit of white smoke 5 mins later from a cold start. "
That seems a very long time to be still producing white smoke due to poor glow plugs. I had an old BX (non-turbo admittedly) where the glowplugs went after about 100k but it would still start if the engine was turned over enough. It produced clouds of white smoke for a few seconds but then ran "clean". It only "misfired" for a few revs as well. I think I would be inclined to check other things also - are you losing any coolant? Hope I am wrong!
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"seeing it blow out a bit of white smoke 5 mins later from a cold start. " That seems a very long time to be still producing white smoke due to poor glow plugs. I had an old BX (non-turbo admittedly) where the glowplugs went after about 100k but it would still start if the engine was turned over enough. It produced clouds of white smoke for a few seconds but then ran "clean". It only "misfired" for a few revs as well. I think I would be inclined to check other things also - are you losing any coolant? Hope I am wrong!
I've not noticed any coolant leaks, but to be honest ive not been looking in that direction.
I noticed my uncle's non-turbo diesel was ok starting up, just a puff of white smoke, yet the useful poster above's TD 1.9 does exactly what mine does for the first 5-10mins.
Needless to say, im slightly confused. Do turbo diesels just take longer to reach a optimum temperature, or are both our cars ticking timebombs? Find out soon enough.
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It could be just water vapour, it is possible that the exhaust system is drying out any condensation which may have formed.
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The glow plugs supposed to be changed lately, although he only mentioned 2 got changed before handing over the car.
Do you know which two were changed? Seems a short sigthed policy to change only two. It is almost certain that the other two were on the way out also.
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Do you know which two were changed? Seems a short sigthed policy to change only two. It is almost certain that the other two were on the way out also.
My thoughts exactly. It was fine for the first couple of days with cold starts, so my guess is the other 2 are out.
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My experience of several Pug diesels (and I guess they are fairly typical) is that it takes 5 or 6 miles driving before the thermostat opens. You can tell when this happens - the temp gauge rises to just above normal running temp, then falls a few degrees and settles back up to normal.
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the temp gauge rises to just above normal running temp, then falls a few degrees and settles back up to normal.
If thermostat is working properly this wont happen!
--
Steve
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Beg to differ steve o, but this is exactly what happens in these cars. Seen this behaviour on all the xuds i have driven.
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As far as the white smoke is concerned, it could be due to the fact that the fuel in one or more cylinders is not igniting on starting up, if only two glow plugs were replaced. It will only ignite when the engine warms up to the required temperature, hence the misfire for 20 to 30 seconds. I could be totally wrong of course but I noticed exactly the same thing with our Xantia, when it had glow plug failure.
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As far as the white smoke is concerned, it could be due to the fact that the fuel in one or more cylinders is not igniting on starting up, if only two glow plugs were replaced. It will only ignite when the engine warms up to the required temperature, hence the misfire for 20 to 30 seconds. I could be totally wrong of course but I noticed exactly the same thing with our Xantia, when it had glow plug failure.
Thanks a lot for your input machika, a good mechanic I know confirmed the same behaviour too, so im quite sure its the glowplugs now... I hope!
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Attempted starting it up this morning - had to hold ignition for at least 10s, followed by at least 15s of misfires.
The car's been in the sunshine all morning which most likely helped. The garage did confirm only 2 changed this morning, and has vowed to change the rest at his cost. Have to see on saturday how it is.
Other than that, the car's excellent.
Cheers for replys so far.
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Have just read these posts with interest. My naturally aspiarted 309 diesel has not long had its head gasket replaced (sypmtons were the fact that it drank coolant!!) and when i got the car back i noticed similar sypmtons to those described. I went back to the garage and they said that it sounded like the valves may have been gummed up. They put some fuel treatment in and after a week driving on that all seems to have cleared up. - if the changing of the glow plugs doesn't work try sticking some fuel treatment in - if nothining else it will make sure everything is clean!!!
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>If thermostat is working properly this won't happen<
steve, if stat and temp gauge are working properly, this has to happen. Stat is closed with engine cold, limiting circulation. As block warms up, the stat opens and the cold contents of the cooling circuit begin to circulate, so the temp at the sensor falls, then rises again as everything gets thoroughly mixed.
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A diesel will generally take longer to heat up than a petrol due to the greater efficiency of the engine. On a cold day my Megane dCi takes a good few miles before the temp gauge begins to move and about 5 miles before it is fully warmed up. This is a bit inconvenient in very cold whether but on the other hand it's averaging 58MPG so I'm very happy.
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I think the new direct injection engines take longer than indirect injection diesels. Our Xantia warms up much quicker than the C5.
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