I witnessed a strange accident on the way home yesterday. The car ahead of me, doing about 40 mph on a straight road with a good surface, suddenly flipped over and landed upside down neatly on the carriageway.
It had not been weaving about, had not braked, and to judge from the absence of tyre marks there had been no sudden mechanical seizure. No other vehicles were involved, as they say.
What could cause a small modern hatchback to do that?
(The driver was unhurt, but understandably shaken)
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What make of car was it?
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Hit the kerb, or some other high obstacle?
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Sorry, not very up on identifying cars, certainly not upside down squashed ones.
I don't think it hit the kerb, or anything else. It was in the middle of the lane on a wide single-carriageway.
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Reminds me of the accident last July hereabouts, in which an elderly driver managed to invert the car on a side road on which no-one ever does more than 20 mph, such is its width and the hazards of parked cars on it. I don't know how that was done either.
Ironically, it happened next door to a classic car show (2000 cars there), which had been convened with severe warnings that any participants repeating the driving misbehaviour witnessed in previous years would be banned from attending again.
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The very same thing happened to a friend?s mother, a sweet, grey-haired lady with horn-rimmed glasses. She rolled her mazda on a slow, gentle hill somewhere near Oldham without swerving or hitting any kerbs or anything else at all. When I saw the road on which she?d done it, it just didn?t make sense, it didn?t seem possible... until this thread. What?s going on?
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What?s going on?
The cars are being playful. They want their tummies tickled.
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Fell asleep?
I fell asleep / closed eyes.....woke up, jerked the steering wheel, ended up rolling down central res of A1 at Catterick - Cortina 1600 GT April 1974.
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When i watch rallying or WRC accidents or simular on tv, they seem to roll over at incredibly low speeds with the slightest provacation.! Probably what happened here?
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All I can think of is that a gust of wind, possibly combined with a jerk on the steering wheel. Also possible the car might have been rocking in SHM to start with.
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How to invert a car:
take one car with worn suspension dampers.
Underinflate the tyres.
Take one driver who is inattentive or partly asleep.
Place one obstacle in front of road: could be a cat/rabbit/ bottle.. enough to catch drivers attention.
Driver wakes up/ comes to attention with a start.
Turns steering wheel violently to avoid said obstacle.
Car starts to snake or slide so driver corrects the other way even more violently
Car's weak suspension and underinflated tyres dig into road and instead of turning car, very slowly car rises on 2 wheels and overturns.
As practised by stunt men at 15mph to drive cars on 2 wheels..:-)
madf
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Place one obstacle in front of road: could be a cat/rabbit/ bottle.. enough to catch drivers attention.
Or perhaps it was a Moose test
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Front tyre blowout?
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"As practised by stunt men at 15mph to drive cars on 2 wheels.."
Sure after they?ve driven it up a take-off ramp. And rally cars trip up when their tyres dig in the grass. This little old lady was on a quiet residential road in a nearly new car. How can you get so out of shape when you?re sitting there on your booster cushion, hands gripped at ten to two, peering intently straight ahead and pootling along.
I?ve done some really stupid things in some really tatty cars as a young lad, but never came close to rolling anything.
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Actually, thinking about it, it happened everyweek on the A Team.
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Actually, thinking about it, it happened everyweek on the A Team.
Slightly off topic, but there's an elderly transit nearby to me painted black with gold wheels and bull bars... now that's what i call taste!
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IIRC in the late 60s there was a spate of accidents involving 1100s (and 1300s) where driving at a relatively low speed the cars just went out of control. I believe it was finally traced to petrol spilling from the tank and causing one rear wheel to become very slippery. Any minor swerve and the car just flipped. I think some police vehicles were involved which prompted a more thorough investigation. (DVD how good is your memory?)
I remember driving my fathers 1100 (probably not very slowly) and having a potential soiling moment when it snaked of its own accord without any apparent provocation on a straight road where I would not have been braking or swerving. I still remember the location to this day. My brother was also a passenger in a 1300 that flipped over on the M1 at 70mph without any apparent provocation. His first words on regaining consciousness and finding himself suspended were "so inertia belts do work upside down" . All 4 walked away, god knows how, since they were not the most robust of cars.
Can anybody else remember this special feature of that range of cars?
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pmh (was peter)
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Not on BL 1100/1300 but the Metro got pasted on consumer TV progs for the same problem. Cannot remember the fuelling arrangemnt on the 1100 but on the metro there was very little "fall" into the tank making inertia spillage through the vent or ill fitting filler cap all to easy.
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What about a drive shaft failure? I imagine if the car is one wheel drive all of a sudden, it could be interesting to drive?
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>pmh
yes: did that. Went through a wire fence and 5 fence posts later I stopped..MG1100...
madf
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madf
Did you ever get it explained why it happened? Or did everybody put it down as driver error?
My memory must be failing, on prompting I now remember that it was the Metro had the petrol problem. However from the same stable (same designer perhaps ??), perhaps we have found the answer to 1100s instability problems.
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pmh (was peter)
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>I now remember that it was the Metro had the petrol problem. However from the same stable (same designer perhaps ??), perhaps we have found the answer to 1100s instability problems<
As I recall, the 1100's filler was near the top of the 'tail', around the waistline. The Metro's was much lower and can't have been much above the tank itself. Not surprising there were overflows on left-hand corners. But the 100's tank was under the boot, before safety regs moved it under the rear seat. I used to swop the electric fuel pump on my 1100 every few months in the mid-60s, when the points sooted up. It sat under the tank in front of the rear bumper.
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Drive shaft failure was a regular occurance on certain motors.Dont recall any that caused a motor to turn over.Though not impossible.Siezed CV joint at speed may do though ie it locks up..
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Steve
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Ot this?
QUOTE:
'Hidden menace' on UK's roads
Stone mastic asphalt is used on some of the UK's busiest roads
Serious safety concerns about new road surfaces being laid across the UK have been uncovered in a BBC investigation.
The materials - stone mastic asphalt, or SMA - are approved by the Highways Agency for trunk roads and motorways.
File On 4 found the same surfaces are banned in Ireland on some roads because of fears about poor grip.
The Department for Transport said just because roads require further investigation, "it doesn't necessarily mean they are unsafe".
SMA surfacing systems are widely used because they are said to last a long time, are quick to lay and give a smooth, quiet ride.
But police crash investigators have become concerned because, in certain conditions, some do not offer much grip for up to two years until they have bedded in.
'Gentle hiss'
Sergeant Jim Allen said he experienced grave difficulties when conducting routine skid tests in optimum conditions on a Derbyshire road newly laid with SMA.
"It was a sunny day in August. I jumped on the brakes and the car just kept going and going.
"Instead of the scream of tyre on road and a cloud of smoke there was just a gentle hiss as I passed over the road, and I skidded far further than I ever expected to."
Concerns about grip have also been raised in Germany, where SMA was pioneeered in the 1960s, and in Holland.
I think road surfaces are a hidden menace to road users and I think perhaps we don't know the half of it
Paul Watters, AA Motoring Trust.
Tests carried out by the National Roads Authorities (NRA) in the Irish Republic raised questions about the materials' ability to provide enough friction for tyres at higher speeds. The NRA has decided to restrict its use to roads with a 30 mph speed limit, and has taken remedial action on other roads where they have put it down.
"When we found the skid resistance to be doubtful we simply had to go and surface dress all those roads to make them safe again," said NRA spokesman Sean Davitt.
"Basically, our attitude towards the material is that we still have to be fully convinced of its benefits."
In a statement, the Highways Agency said all new materials pass a rigorous testing procedure which includes examination of surface texture for skid resistance.
But File On 4 found that skid resistance tests were conducted in the wet and on surfaces that were worn down, but that tests in dry conditions were overlooked.
Significantly, critics of SMA say that slipperiness can be a problem on new, dry roads.
'Lives at risk'
The programme also reveals that one in five miles of existing main road are now potentially dangerous due to low skid resistance, according to the government's own most recent maintenance survey.
And the AA Motoring Trust warns that England's road network is broadly in the worst condition since records began in the 1970s.
Spokesman Paul Watters says: "I think road surfaces are a hidden menace to road users and I think perhaps we don't know the half of it, to be honest with you.
"In London it's as many as a third of main roads that have skid resistance at a level that needs looking at. Clearly this is an alarm bell. There could be lives at risk."
The Department for Transport would not be interviewed for File On 4.
But in a statement it said: "A number of factors would have to come together to make a road unsafe, including volumes of traffic, speeds and the nature of the road itself...Just because roads have reached a level requiring further investigation, it doesn't necessarily mean they are unsafe."
The government would not accept that road repairs are in crisis, saying it was committed to spending more than £31bn over a 10-year period.
File on 4: BBC Radio 4, Tuesday 22 February at 2000 GMT, and repeated on Sunday, 27 February at 1700 GMT
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>pmh
just driver error..
madf
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Growler, I suppose the Department for Transport's answer to the disturbing file-on-four report will be to stick in more "slippery roads" signs. Job done!
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