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I was caught by a revenue camera a fews years ago - speeding in a 30mph limit. The road was a dual carriageway. I complained to the polics (Sussex of course) that there were no speed limit repeater signs. The road had started out as a single carriageway and changed into a dual carriageway, with no speed limit reminders. The police superintendent at Lewes wrote: "The law as it stands does not permit the Highways Department to place repeater signs for a 30 mph limit." I wrote to my MP, he wrote to Jack Straw, he passed it to Lord Whitty, Parliamentray Under Secretary of State at the Department of Transport. He wrote: "In the past motorists successfully avoided convictions for speeding by arguing that repeaters on some of these roads and not on others made them unaware of the limit in force. Rather than insisting that Councils go to the expense of placing them on every road, they were prohibited altogether." All I can say is what a load of old codswallap - since when has spending our money bothered governments? So the most important speed limit is the least visible - mmm nice.
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Anthony,
Was this the A259 in Worthing, going West from the Thomas a'Becket lights by any chance ?
Adam
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It was Broadwater Road, Worthing, heading south, approaching the railway bridge near Worthing Station
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Anthony,
Well. how's that for a co-incidence ! Right town but wrong location.
The 259 West from Thomas a'Becket is a favorite spot for a mobile unit, but the fixed camera in Broadwater Road is long established, and is frankly very obviously a 30 mph limit. It is a typical urban dual carriageway, with many joining roads and other hazards. The camera is only about 250 metres from the lights at the juction with Northcourt Road, and I have to say I rekon it is a fair cop !! This camera, like most in the area (apart from the "redlight jumper" ones) is now emblazoned with a yellow camera symbol on it's back(approaching) side.
Sympathectically, Adam
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Maybe its obvious when you know it.
I had been living in Worthing for about one month, it was night time, raining and my wife had a very young baby (3 weeks old). All I could see was a well lit, dual carriagway.
Fair cop? Yes. Second speeding ticket in 31 years and that includes about 10 on very fast botorbikes. That's not bad.
My beef is, that it is illegal to promote the 30mph limit. The most imortant is the least obvious.
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Anthony,
Don't get me wrong. I agree with your beef, and the lack of 30mph repeater signs smacks of penny-pinching. Your last paragraph is VERY well expressed (apart from the spelling !!).
Regards, Adam
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If the road has street lighting, you can assume that it is a 30mph limit, unless signs indicate otherwise.
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But what about a motorway?
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Surely, at the end of the day (how I hate that expression !), the onus is on the driver to recognise and remember the last limit sign he/she passed.
Adam
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Does that also mean the 90 mph burnups wiv me mates down the Findon Valley on Gold Stars, Bonnies and Velos that we used to enjoy 1959-ish are now frowned upon as well?
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"the onus is on the driver to recognise and remember the last limit sign he/she passed."
The point is that it's difficult to work out when so many roads have no signposting.
I spent a few weeks driving in the states this summer and found that I had no problems adhering to the limits. This was despite driving on the right for the first time in my life and getting used to a foreign traffic system. All this because every road I drove on had the speed limit clearly posted.
In Britain however i've been flashed whilst traveling at 70mph on what I thought was a motorway (unfamiliar area, and lost) because it turned out to be an A-road. As I hadn't seen a sign and there was street lighting should I have assumed that this road had a 30 limit despite the fact that it was a three lane dual carrigeway?
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Andrew,
Motorway, A Road, no difference so long as it is a dual carriageway with no lower linit applying. National speed limit on unrestricted dual carriageway roads, including motorways, is currently 70 mph.
Regards, Adam
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The point was that having just joined the road I hadn't seen any sign at this point so assumed a 70 limit. The first sign to adjust came at about the same point as the speed camera which flashed me. The correctness of all of this was never tested as no NIP was recieved. The point was that in the absence of a sign I percieved a higher limit than that which actually applied. In a sane world it strikes me that a lower limit should apply unless posted higher. This is just more intuitive.
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Another way to tell the limit if repeater signs are few and far between and you are on a road with lighting is to check for speed signs at the junctions with minor roads. If you see 30 signs at the entrance to minor roads then you are in a 40 at least. If nothing, its best to assume you are in a 30.
Currently in a battle with the county council. Road I drive down every day has a 30 limit, which is probably OK; this then changes into a 40 limit. Looking at the road nature and comparing with Annex A to Circular Roads 1/93 shows that the road varies between a 40 and 50/60 type but in such short stretches its not worth altering the limit so 40 is OK if a bit slow at times. It is unlit so repeater signs all along the way.
85th percentile speed? That clearly is about 40 and somewhat difficult to say what it would be if there were no limit in force.
T'other day noticed some new signs in place which had been covered up in sacking. One or two been exposed to reveal the 40 limit was about to shift to 30. Next day everything had been covered with bin liners, looked like the local residents handiwork quite frankly I guess in order to try and extend the 30 limit for the next two miles.
This made the speed limit signing totaly illegal, and dependant upon from which direction you approached the section of road you could quite legitimately think the limit was 30, 40 or NSL.
What a farce trying to find out who to speak to or where to write in order to complain. Due to all this council public private partnership tosh passed from pillar to post. Managed to get confirmation from Road Safety officer that this was not a problem road, but could not get anyone in the council to answer my questions as to why this limit was about to be changed or indeed that a change was planned. Many unanswered and unreturned calls later I had to beggar off to USA but it will be interesting, and I suspect frustrating ,to see what has happened when I get back.
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