'users could save UP TO 30%'
So that'll be the saving over the usual premium if they do NO mileage over the included off-peak miles.
I bet you don't have to go much over that to start nudging up to paying the same amount. And looking at £1 a mile on-peak, you pretty much can't drive then at all.
Why do I get the feeling that for the majority of motorists this will end up costing the same or more? The insurance company isn't going to start a scheme which loses them money, are they?
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In fact, even assuming the absolute minimum mileage rate of 6p applies throughout, anyone doing an average mileage in a year will be paying out a minimum of £650 on top of buying the black box and their 'standing rate' payment, however much that is.
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Sorry to go on about this, but there is one really great advantage to this system:
They can't quote you a price for your insurance. They don't know what mileage you'll do and when, so they can't give you a price, so you don't know how much it'll rip you off for.
Oh, and another thought - what if someone else drives your car at any point?
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i'd have thought the fact that yet another big brother will know where you are at all times is enough to kill this stone dead
unless you have a very flash car which you are not planning to use much i wouldnt have thought it made sense, certainly i wouldnt want this in my day to day transport
somehow i think they will find a way to mysteriously cover over the GPS antenna when they need to
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You have a mobile phone John? If you do BB knows (roughly) where you are now.
You bought any new clothes lately John? In 5 years time every shop you walk past will be tracking you via the RFID tags in them (which by the way were linked to you when you paid using that credit card.)
too late to worry about BB
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RFID tags in them
Does this mean you're big brother???
Seriously though, I really can't imagine anything more annoying than having someone come round to my house one day and spend all afternoon drilling holes in my otherwise solid car and installing a black box which will just suck battery juice and make a mess of the already dodgy electrics, just so I can insure my car. It'll never catch on.
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Having worked in the insurance broking industry for years and knowing this company well I think the spin we are seeing at present will be used to create another reason to hike preiums for "undesirable risks"
I bet new questions will be added to assess risk i.e.:
1)You commute into South London. That will be extra or a no quote.
2)We notice you live in Chester but your car is kept for weeks at a time at your mothers in Liverpool as you work abroad. We don't like that etc, etc.
Also, what they have not said is that these boxes also tell the number of stop starts, idling time, average speed and max speed over given set maxima. A friend of mine runs an executive car hire firm and they use it to check out what people are doing with the cars. Worryingly, just like a cellphone (on which the technology is based), it can tell where the car is at any given time.
My friends device does this in real time as a standard feature. This means that areas like race tracks and ports are excluded and it sends a warning to his PC if the hire cars go into these areas! Again, what is the betting it is not long before you get a discount for not ever taking your car into a "high risk area" or like the congestion charge or green card, you pay extra for the privilage.
As you can gather, I think people using this device are sleep walking into a big brother scenario.
Also don't forget, that two motor insurers control almost 50% of the market now. A big discount may give this device momentum that means like having an immobiliser, it is essential to get reasonably priced insurance.
Also don't forget, that all kinds of government departments have the right to sneekily see computer records that firms hold on you. This device would give a complete profile of your life, indiscretions, habits etc.
Also, also don't forget that almost inevitably this information at sometime will be compiled into a database that when cross referenced with MOTs, DVLA records, No-claims bonus records and etc may enable the government to achieve automatic fines for speeding motorists etc.
Sorry about the length of this post, but believe me this is the slippery slope!
Check out the demo on www.trackercom.com after downloading the mapping software.
Scary especially if your wife or boss gets it fitted on the QT!
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>>Scary especially if your wife or boss gets it fitted on the QT!
Depends if you're cheating and/or skiving I guess.
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Or completing the shopping ultra efficiently and then going to watch the soccer with your mates for 10 minutes! "You never told me blah, blah, blah"!
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I would expect the standing charge to be based on address, type of car, number of drivers, occupation etc so other drivers could be covered.
As regards total cost it's up to the driver to work out the cost based on their mileage - if it's less young drivers will go for it especially when premiuims for them are usually well over £1,000 and quite often nearer £2,000 for TPFT only.
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I dont know whether I like this idea or not.. I fall into the category that it is aimed at, as I'm 20. However, I don't think it would be very beneficial to me. Firstly I like to know how much I am paying ahead of time, and therefore I pay my insurance annually. Also, I now have almost 3 years no claims which has brought my premium down to £400 tpft... Hence, if I was to get this system I would be paying half of my yearly premium for the box before I've even done any miles.
Also, I dont think I would have gone for the idea when I got my first car. I had a 1989 micra (which cost me nothing as I was given it) and I paid £800 third party only for the first year. Had I bought a car and then had to pay to have the box fitted I dont know if I'd have gone for that idea.
I'd be very wary of how much I drove my car if I knew that I was going to be charged by the mile on a pay-as-you-go system. I think it would stop me using it as much as I do.
On a good note... I could use it as an excuse for not picking the boyfriend up from the pub at closing time... As it would cost me more....
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Perhaps I should have quantified my ringing endorsement; obviously it's only a 'great idea' if it'll save you money... Hopefully young 'uns will have the sense to do a few sums first and work it out if it will save them money, if not and they end up paying more then that's their look out. The pay as you go idea saves you stumping up a four figure sum all at once, or spreading the payments monthly but being hit by an interest charge. As for 'big brother', I can't say I'm too keen on it but I'm pretty sure that it would have slowed me down as an over-confident 17 year old if I knew that my movements and speeds could potentially be 'watched'.
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This firm insurers a large amount of high value cars.
If this test works it will be extended further in my opinion, as from a money point of view would probably make more sense and be more "popular" than trying to sell the idea to impovorished youngsters.
Scenario; Idea gets critical mass, a few do gooders agree to get a discount by having there speed logged (the system has this facility already), insurers and government see a safety benefit and bingo all of a sudden it is compulsory. Our esteemed leader would get his way without doing anything.
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>>The cover will cost 18-21-year-olds a flat fee of £1 a mile if they drive between the hours of 11pm and 6am.
Oh, there's going to be loads of take up on this ! You wouldn't want to be a shift worker on this deal.
I can't say that the "Big Brother" aspect bothers me, but £1 per mile would.
Imagine arriving back from holiday later at night and discovering its going to cost you £100 to drive your car home !
Or an emergency with Great Aunt Mildred in Glasgow.
And I do also wonder what happens if someone else drives your car, if your car is towed or trailered or if the unit breaks.
And not only do electronics break, they can also be deliberately messed with. Imagine that someone removes the box and leaves it connected to a battery at home. Ok, they might not pay out in the event of an accident, but that's going to be a bit late.
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Love the way some people leap to the big brother scenario.
Implementing this costs the insurance company money, they are offering a business proposition doing what all insurance companies do - trying to make money by reducing the risk they are taking as moch as possible.
The idea of reducing costs if you are a low risk driver who doesn't go into towns, drive in rush hour, drive late at night etc is attractive to some people so why not.
The volumes of data and complexity involved tracing every car all the time are such that no government department I have ever had anything to do with in IT terms would be able to get close to doing it.
Can't see that there will be enough voluntary take up for an insurance company to want to do it other than as a niche product for certain drivers either.
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No human input would be needed. Your car goes over a predetermined speed and you get a fine. System is already up and running for speed cameras. Revenue would far outweigh cost in my view.
Re item cost. Mass produced and if legislation demanded it put in at time of manufacture cost would be small. To give you an idea, Sony mass produced a £64,000 graphics chip and bought it down to a price that enables them to turn a profit on the Playstation 2 they put it into.
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"Sony mass produced a £64,000 graphics chip"
Err just to be pedantic, no they dont, a certain other company does it for them,
But back to the point, if fitted to every car at manufacture it will cost about 25 dollars.
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I agree Mark, £1 a mile is a huge amount. Good point well made. But when I was a lad, dropping friends home late at night and so on was when my driving was worst - the lack of other traffic (I lived in a rural area) meant that I could do very high speeds. Fortunately I didn't crash, but if I had done it would have been potentially very serious. I know many peers who have crashed at night and it is logical to charge more for higher risk. As for the airport arguement, while the car's been sat in the carpark for 2 weeks only a minimal amount of insurance has been paid. However, taking myself as an example, £100 for the drive home would cover my insurance for approximately 5 weeks so in this instance it doesn't add up. Not even close in fact, ok, i'll admit it's still expensive! But I like the pay as you go idea.
As for 'big brother', I agree with commerdriver - look at the fuss being made over introducing identity cards as an example of the hostility further 'interference' in our lives would face (probably quite rightly).
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I'm intrigued as to why 11pm - 6am is so risky. I would have thought early morning and early evening rush hours were riskiest what with everyone driving to work dropping kids off etc.
--
\"Nothing less than 8 cylinders will do\"
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Yes I can understand the 11pm start - its pub chucking out time. and maybe up to 3am just after club chucking out time, but 6:00am? Jeez i am sometimes off to work at that time
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As someone who values his ability to go about his business privately and annonomously above all else, whether that costs me money or not, the thought of all my movements being available to all who can persuade parliament they have a reason for knowing them is horrifying. I can switch my mobile off, before anyone brings that up.
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"Your car goes over a predetermined speed and you get a fine."
That is already here. I read an article about a car hire firm in the US that attached similar datalogging boxes to their cars and were fining their customers if they exceeded a maximum speed limit. It was all above the board though, meaning, they told their customers about it and it was on the rental agreement etc.
If I ever win the lottery I will be hiring one of their cars and a large cargo plane, loading the car on the plane, then taking it up for a very quick flight. Upon returning the car, I would take pleasure in the look on the desk clerk's face as they tried to get a fine out of me for doing 500+ MPH in one of their cars 8-)
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