Just curious to see how others drive in this respect...
When on quiet country roads or at night, I can often be found straddling the white lines at the centre of the road to aid visibility / cornering line etc. I'm not pretending to be Schumacher, but often find that taking a 'racing line' through a corner is more comfortable than doggedly sticking to the left, and makes it easier to deal with circumstances such as a tightening bend or unseen obstructions. I know that IAM teaches positioning similar to this but suspect that they would disapprove of crossing the white lines in the centre of the road (in much the same way that an instructor would frown upon 85mph on a quiet bit of motorway).
So do others use all of the road some of the time?
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I certainly do. Around here, you can go left and be in the centre of a town, or go right and find yourself on country roads even though we don't live in the country!
Providing I have a good view, I'll take a racing line through bends and quite often straddle the white line. However, the latter is usually done because the road repairs are so bad, to stay either side of the line would mean being tramlined into a wall!
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Adam
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Yes do this all the time especially on deserted unlit duel carriageways at night. SWMBO is often reciting pace notes with quotes like 'over crest, left medium, 40 max.'
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I used to do this until a passenger biker friend pointed out that bikers often use country roads at well in excess of the speed limits but tend to keep to their side of the road. I wouldn't like to be straddling the line when an comes round the bend at double the speed limit. Regardless of blame, bugs are the biggest objects I prefer hitting my windscreen.
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Was taught by a defensive driving instructor to do this but not just for the racing line. He taught me to postion the car to give maximum view through the bend, and if this means straddling the white line or even going on the wrong side of the road where safe and legal then so be it.
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I often do that too RF but taught by Papa to do so. Needless to say, Mum, and the more jittery of my friends thing this is illegal and dangerous. If you can see, and make yourself safer then it's fine.
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Adam
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I know some keen drivers use the whole width of the road when it's clear, to smooth out bends.
My view is the best advice is only to use the wrong side of the road when it's neccessary. E.g. when overtaking or, especially in a large vehicle, to negotiate a tight turn (after making sure it's safe to do so, of course).
If one gets in the habit of straying across the road to take bends quicker, one's that little bit nearer to forgetting oneself and doing it when there IS something coming. I once had a ride in a car driven by a care-free clergyman who took blind right-hand bends on a winding B-road on the wrong side in daylight. He liked his drink too, and I think it was one of the most frightening rides I've evert had!
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I always straighten bends when the road is clear and the view is unobstructed. No point in wasting fuel going the long way round.
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The racing line around a bend is often the smoothest course for passengers, as it limits the lateral forces and/or the sensation of braking/acceleration. It can often be used even without straying to the other side.
I do move to the right from time to time, but only to obtain better visibility, and then with care. I won't generally cross the line significantly - what if the better view lets me see something that would have made me think otherwise about straying right?!
I find that it always helps to bear in mind that I might be wrong* - I might have failed to spot something. And it would be very embarrassing to have to explain why I was on the wrong side of the road.
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*except in argument with NoWheels ;-)
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I find that it always helps to bear in mind that I might be wrong*
[snip]---------------------------------- *except in argument with NoWheels ;-)
In that case, as you rightly point out, "might be" would be inappropriate. When you're arguing with me, you are wrong ;-)
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He put the fear of God into you?
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>>He put the fear of God into you?
Actually it was at about that time that I gave up religion!!!
If one thinks about the number of times one mutters to oneself 'get over' as an oncoming driver strays un-necessarily across the white line, the practice of keeping to one's own side makes sense.
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I had the slightly unnerving experience today of a Defender driving female using the racing line coming in my direction: only it was over double whites, on a switchback bend section. Second time the bucolic tendency has nearly taken out a townie in the last month! First time was over a hatched line, him cutting the corner drastically, almost completely on my side. Sudden lurch from the Defender back to his own side retrieved the situation, just as I was contemplating getting into the hedge. Must be the cider.
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Positioning yourself on the wrong side of the road for a clearer view is not taking the racing line. The IAM do teach this type of driving as do the Police. The racing line is the usually the shortest route through a given bend or bends. Visibility is not an issue on a racetrack as they are flatish with out hedges and trees etc. I ride a bike as well as driving a car and think it is inapropriate to drive through country lanes on anything other than the left.
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\"Nothing less than 8 cylinders will do\"
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Yeah What he said.
It's not the racing line, that wouldn't be quicker in the real world. Racing drivers don't have to worry about oncoming vehicles.
Your line should give the maximum visability ahead.
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Yeah what he said too...
but I would add that straying across centre road markings is OK unless, of course, it is a solid white line on your side... Nobody promotes that as a defensive means of driving!
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Certainly wouldnt defend against points on your license!
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When you cross the white line in a say, 90 degree bend you are imitating the racing line. The racing line is not necessarily the shortest route through a bend, but the path of least resistance. By taking this path you are increasing the radius of the corner so that you can carry more speed through it. In effect trying to drive in a straight a line as possible.
This is fine on country roads where you can clearly see the entire road, both before and after the apex - and as mentioned above throws the passenger and driver around less inside the car.
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When you cross the white line in a say, 90 degree bend you are imitating the racing line.<<
No you are not. It depends whether it is a right or left hander. If it is a left hander then you are on the wrong side of the road to enhance visibility through the bend - This is definately not the racing line! If on a right hander then you do not cross the line - you position your car/bike to the nearside to enhance visibility etc.
>>The racing line is not necessarily the shortest route through a bend, but the path of least resistance.<<
Sorry, what's the difference?
>>By taking this path you are increasing the radius of the corner so that you can carry more speed through it. In effect trying to drive in a straight aline as possible.
You not increase the radius of the corner if you are after the racing line. This is called going around the outside and you would only do this if your vehicle was considerably faster than the opposition or you had braked too late. On the road you may increase the radius to smooth the journey, but then you are not trying to win a race.
I am a member of the IAM having passed the motorbike test. Advanced riding and driving techniques do not advocate taking the racing line on public roads as it places you in more danger and conflict with other road users.
However, the advanced road riding methods do make me smoother and quicker around a race track.
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\"Nothing less than 8 cylinders will do\"
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Imagine a 90 degree right hander.The shortest path (and in your opinion the racing line) would be to approach the bend hugging the right hand side of the road then clip the apex and then exit the bend also on the right hand side of the road. This is the shortest distance round the bend. If you tried this however you would find that you would have to slow right down in order to take the corner successfully as you have made the bend very tight by not using the left hand side of the road on the approach. The racing line however is to use the left hand side of the track for the approach (again for a right hander) then use all of the road to make your turn.This results in a less tight turn - hence more speed through it.
The path of least resistance is as described above and is not always the shortest route.
Of course i am not advocating doing this on public roads - it is rarely either useful or possible due to visibilty problems.
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V8 man - Refer to the definition on this website (or others)
www.brendel.com/racing/glossary_2.shtml
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Good definition if you are in a car and can use the kerbs. Try using the kerbs on a bike.
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\"Nothing less than 8 cylinders will do\"
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Good definition if you are in a car and can use the kerbs. Try using the kerbs on a bike.
Good point. But the principle remains the same on 2 wheels as well as 4. The point of the racing line is to find the fastest route round the track. This is not necessarily the shortest. But it is the route that has the least resistance and largest radii on its turns.
Just don't get too greedy clipping the apex on a bike.
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I used to "take the racing line" frequently ,but due to the large amount of cyclist's riding their push bikes with no lights on i have stopped.It makes a hell of a mess,Physically and mentally.
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Blimey, I've opened a can of worms here...!
First of all, like all aspects of motoring I feel that a healthy dollop of common sense is useful when contamplating crossing those white lines - can I see far enough to ensure I'm not going to get in anybody's way (bike or car)? do the risks of crossing this line outweigh the risks of not crossing it and maybe having to take evasive action if something is, say, hidden on the left shoulder of the road after a left hand bend? etc etc. No hard and fast rules, assess every situation as it arises.
Secondly, my use of the term 'racing line' was meant to be descriptive but was probably misleading. I very rarely use the whole width of the road, just meant to indicate the technique of going wide on entry for visibility, and wide on exit to try and reduce corner radius.
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The IAM don't advocate using the wrong side of the road when negotiating country lanes, at least not when I took the test. They do advocate positioning for maximum visibility, as long as it's safe to do so. When an examiner (i.e. Police Class 1) visited the local group, there was quite a debate about it, though the terms 'whitelining' and 'offsiding' were much used, which confused us mere mortals. As I understand it, moving towards the centre white line (on left-hand bends) to increase visibility: definitely. Crossing the white line (even to increase visibility): a definite no-no, except for Police Class 1 drivers who presumably know how to do it safely.
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There isn't actually a wrong side of the road unless you cross a solid white line. My local IAM club has members of the police as members including 2 examiners. They do advocate using all the road where appropriate and safe to do so. A few years ago you would have failed the bike test for ofsiding but the rules for the test were changed allowing it. I've been on numerous rides with police riders and they use all the road even in country lanes. Again, only when safe to do so. Every road and ride / drive is different. You cannot be prescriptive about what is right at all times. This is the basic failing of the DOT test that we all take. It tells you what to do for a given situation.
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\"Nothing less than 8 cylinders will do\"
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This is the basic failing of the DOT test that we all take. It tells you what to do for a given situation. --
Not really, v8. The L test is for inexperienced new drivers. You cannot teach certain advanced techniques to people who do not have the experience or the skill to safely put them into practice. I straighten bends where I can see that it is safe to do so, and there is no obstruction that may even momenterally be hiding an approaching vehicle. However, I used to insist that my pupils stuck to the left of the white line without exception when cornering, and never straighten roundabouts because I knew that if I did otherwise someone with ony 30 hours road experience in their life (ten hours less than I had every week) would misjudge a situation or mis-interpret what they had been taught with disasterous consequences.
Using the whole road is a sensible way of proceeding when safe, but it takes a couple of years of regular driving to fully understand when it would not be safe.
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