Having visited Wickes in Plymouth (Exeter Street branch) every working day for a few days now, I have noticed up to 6 cars to be clamped.
There are notices warning of the likelihood of clamping cars belonging to people who use the car park but are not customers of the store.
Well, I honestly thought blood was going to be spilt today. Once chap came in, having just bought some items from the store, complaining about being clamped. Whickes say, and I believe them, that it was not their decision to get the clampers in but that of the the landlord of their premises.
Aparently, this gent had parked in the car park, left the site to go and get some money, then returned to buy something from the store and then notice he had been clamped.
As I left, a Wickes staff member was with this chap trying to reason with the clampers and no progress had been made. I have never felt such an urge to commit assault on two individuals in my life as I saw the clampers siting in their little van laughing!
So if you're in Plymouth and use that car park for any other purpose than to visit Wickes or the furniture show room next door - unless you can afford £75 - don't.
So, full marks to Wickes for trying to help this person out but - have we had a BR clamping debate here recently?
In the left corner, stand the "The only good clamper is a dead clamper etc arguements" and in the right is the "well we need parking controls, how would you like it if people just parked in your drive and walked into town etc arguements.
I feel that privately hired enforcement has its place but the complete lack of regulation is worrying. What is to stop these individuals acting outside of their scope and clamping people who actually use the store only?
I also feel that clamping is the just desserts of a motoring public who are often seen not to respect property and tend to take advantage of what is often seen as free parking at the inconvenience of land owners and tenants who need to keep parking spaces open for staff and customers wisiting their store.
H
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Sorry but I can not even see the argument. Clampers are thugs obtaining money with menaces.
If we had a police force I would expect them to do something about it, as we don't then I am happy in this instance for rough justice to apply.
I also do not buy Wickes arguements for a moment. Wickes are renting the building plus no doubt a right to use the car park. If a percentage of the wonga is NOT going to Wickes then I would be very surprised. Short termism as it will destroy their trade, this guy will never shop at any Wickes again and will tell at least 10 more people who will not do so. Hope they go bust.
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Plus the information is out on the web!
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I have never fully understood the logic behind clamping as a method of enforcing parking restrictions, especially where private car parks are concerned.
Surely the problem is that the offending vehicle(s) are parked where they shouldn't be, thus preventing those who are entitled to park there from doing so.
How, then, does making it impossible for the owners of said vehicles to remove them alleviate that problem? It doesn't.
A couple of better ideas:
1) Towing away offending vehicles (this seems to be the usual method in those parts of the US that I've visited, certainly)
2) Having some sort of barrier entry system whereby either
a) in the case of a superstore, those not shopping in the store have to pay for parking in the normal way at so much an hour; those shopping in the store get out for free (our local Waitrose does this)
b) in the case of flats or offices, if you haven't a keycard (or whatever), you simply don't get in.
Any of the above has to be preferable to hiring a gang of goons in a white van demanding money with menaces.
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Surely the guy was in the right place to buy an angle grinder?
No thugs are going to intervene with a guy with an angle grinder, plus the clampers can try and take him to court. They would loose badly as he has an receipt from the shop!
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I can't remember seeing an angle grinder that plugs into the 12v socket...
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I can't remember seeing an angle grinder that plugs into the 12v socket...
It will if you plug a power inverter into the cigar socket, then plug the grinder into that.
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I agree with this completely. I remember being at Southampton Docks once when an announcment came over the tannoy stating that owner of a car should move it immediately as it was blocking vital access points. Failure to comply would lead to the vehicle being clamped - obviously making the car invisible and no longer a problem! :-p
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As to whether or not it fixes aproblem;
Oh my goodness, it most certainly does. I had a problem with the car park surrounding our offices.
I called the clampers in, who do the job and take all the responsibility and pass NONE of the money on to us.
Two weeks of rows, unpleasantness, upset people, unjust clampings and goodness knows what else.
After a month I cancelled the clampers and 1 year later the problem parking still hasn\'t returned.
However, Wickes are probably telling the truth on a couple of points -
It may well have been the landlords; since it is quite possible that there is another store there also with the same landlord and Wickes complained that customers from the other shop were using Wickes\' car park asking the landlord to fix it - or vice versa.
Wickes will have no control. If the arrangement was like ours, they wouldn\'t unclamp a wrongly clamped vehiche even when I, as the contract holder, asked/told/insisted they should.
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Maybe in this case clamping does work, but I don't see how clamping will help when the offending car is blocking access points. In that case surely towing it away is the best option.
I also agree that Wickes would probably have nothing to do with the clampers - when I was working for B&Q Headoffice I dealt with problems like this from stores but it was all out of our hands.
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Sorry guys but if you have negotiated a contract where you do not get any of the potential revenue AND you have no power over the clampers who might wrongly clamp your customer and ruin your trade then you are not very good negotiators. One or the other and hopefully both would be the order of the day and the consequences of not having the later are obvious. It is a competitive market after all.
Wickes may have no right under their lease agreement with the landholder but again bad business. Their is now at least one entry on the web taht says Wickes Plymouth avoid.
I am available to negotiate contractual terms for my normal modest fee.
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even with my apparantly appalling negotiation skills, I did manage to work out that any ability to make decisions or share in revenue on my part would then involve me in any complaints or writs issued by any injured party.
>>I am available to negotiate contractual terms for my normal modest fee.
And if any real world practicalities creep in, then I can always underwrite your efforts. ;-)
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This seems a little strange, I wonder whether the facts have been stretched? If he had a card to get money with, it could have been used for payment in the Wickes store.
If I found that I had been clamped on my return to a car park intended for a specific shop, my first action would be to visit the shop to make a minimal purchase so that I was then in a position to dispute the clamping.
How did the clampers know he was not in the shop (or shops?). Most clamping in a shared enviroment is triggered by a time limit being exceeded. How this would work with itinerant clampers unless they make sucessive visits to log all vehicles.
I suppose it could be that they 'just happened to see him park and then leave the premises', in which case valid (but commercially unwise for Wickes!) clamping. Interesting to know what was written on the warning signs.
pmh (was peter)
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I operate a small private car park behind my office. There is no power to the site so we cannot install an electronically controlled barrier and the users (all of whom pay me about £500pa to park there) would not pay the extra expense of installing power and a control system.
The only way to stop unauthorised parking is to threaten to clamp and to do so every so often. I would love to be able to lift the offending car up and remove it, but that is very expensive and where would I put it.
However, I did negotiate with the clamping company that I have the final word, and if I say unclamp without payment, they MUST do so. I do not get a share of the proceeds.
--
Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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Of interest ?
Private Security Industry Act 2001, has now finished with Licensing of Bouncers and now moving to licence Clampers:
Cowboy clampers reined in by Security Industry Authority
From 1 November 2004 vehicle immobilisers in England and Wales will be able to start applying for an SIA licence, which become mandatory on 28 February 2005.
After 28 February it will be illegal to operate anywhere in England and Wales without this licence, which applies to vehicle immobilisers, their supervisors, managers and directors who operate on private ground and charge a fee for the release of a vehicle.
The licence application fee for a one-year vehicle immobiliser operative (front line) is £190. A non front-line licence will also cost £190, but will last for three years.
DVD
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the ways this government has found to raise cash are incredible.
If it wasn't for the fact that I hate the interfearing busybodies I would admire the thought and energy they put into it!
That said some clampers obviously need regulating.
JaB
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Ah, but is it not the case that once regulated and paying a registrtation fee it makes it MUCH easier for the IR to trace individuals and check tax arrangements. Probably a case of too many cash release fees going into pockets without an IR deduction rather than a case that regulation is required. Of course the additional registration fee just helps a little!
Cynical....moi? Just watch what is about to happen with electricians and other trades. Regulate, regulate and as a by product lots of sole traders have to start tidying up their tax records.
StarGazer
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We had a similar situation develop in Southend.
A new Curry's was built on the edge of the town centre, also has a couple of other retail units sharing the car park. Now, all the roads on the town centre side of the ring road are pay and display so guess where Joe Public decides it's good to park, of course, in Curry's nice shiny new FREE car park!
Unfortunately Curry's, and the other retailers, not surprisingly, get a little miffed that their customers can't park because the spaces in their car park are now filled with cars belonging to people walking across the road to shop in the town centre. The retailers promptly had a moan at the managing agent for their little shopping park, something like 'we're paying you for use of a car park for our customers in our rent and our customers can't park and are going elsewhere'. Managing agent promptly puts up large signs to the effect that the car park is for use of customers of the retailers on that site only and only while in those stores. Signs are virtually ignored, managing agent calls in the clampers to enforce it.
Very shortly afterwards guy parks, goes into Curry's, buys some batteries or somesuch then wanders off into town for a couple of hours and comes back to find himself clamped. Next day, headlines in local paper about 'cowboy clampers''terrifying' this strapping chap.
The problem has now spread to the B&Q a little further down the road, they now have a similar policy with an additional maximum time limit.
My own workplace nearby has now had to install entry and exit barriers, originally we had drop flaps on the exit but people would drive over them the wrong way to get into our car park illicitly!
The daft thing is, within a couple of minutes walk of all these sites there is a public multi-storey car park that stands half empty virtually every day! Basically we are generally too lazy, or more likely too tight, to park properly.
I'm afraid we are getting the parking enforcement that a large proportion of the population deserves, both in private and public car parks and sadly common sense doesn't often prevail.
If the chap in Plymouth genuinely hadn't seem the signs, or misunderstood them, I have some sympathy, if he had genuinely just popped across the road to the cash machine, I have some sympathy but the odds aren't good on either of these premises given the record of the general public. However the clampers shouldn't have been laughing even if they would have heard just about every excuse there is before. The move towards regulation and licencing of private clampers will be a good thing and should produce a more professional attitude, it certainly has improved the behaviour and conduct of doormen, so let's hope it does the same for your local clamper.
Cockle
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I have to say I agree with you cockle.
The 'I'll park where I damn well like' brigade have a lot to answer for to people who simply need a bit of common sence applied, like this chap yesterday who got clamped, even if he did go into Wickes - I understand they let him off after the Wickes staff complained.
Regulation is on its way according to DVD, well if anyone on this planet could tell us that, it has to be him!
I think there is a place for honest competent car park enforcement companies, who may stick to a system of warning and using a system that doesn't just line their pockets.
The cowboys should be driven out of business, and I hope they will or at least be made to conform when the requirement to register arrives.
What recouce will there be if an operator is breaking the rules by either not registering or sticking to his remit?
h
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Don't know how relevant this is to the topic directly, but clamping is, and has been, illegal in Scotland for a good couple of years now.
I don't know what Act was passed, or any detail etc, but it is well known fact that clamping is illegal here.
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This particular carpark is an issue quite close to me.
The carpark at this particular branch of Wickes is absolutely enormous. It's so big, even at the busiest times in Wickes and the adjacent Courts, it's not even 30% full. Quite why the carpark is so large, I don't know. I can only think it was designed to also serve an additional store that was never built.
As a result, people who worked in the city centre would park there during the week and walk into town as there was a section of the carpark which was away from the main store. This went on for about a year or so, and despite this, the carpark was still never more than 40-50% full even on busy days.
It was also located conveniently close to the University, who do not provide parking, so I used to park my car there a couple of times a week as well. Got a phone call from a mate a few weeks back saying 'You parked there today? They are clamping'. When I parked I didn't recall seeing the notices. Legged it back to the carpark to discover they'd run out of clamps just before my car, and managed to get out.
Seems quite odd they've suddenly employed a clamping company to police the carpark becuase there was never a parking problem there. There must be 300-500 spaces which for a small DIY store and a furniture store is overkill.
So as a result of the clamping the carpark has gone from having 60% free space to 80% free space - the actual space available right next to the stores remains unchanged becuase everyone used to park at the other end of the carpark as it was closer to town.
They've acheived absolutely nothing, but I guess as its private land they can do what they like. It's a bit of a shame as I now have a load of hassle to park near Uni, as I can't use the bus to get in. Never mind.
Didn't realise it was causing issues with customers but I can see how it is - they sit in the van like vultures. So given that they never had a capacity problem, they've solved a problem that didnt exist and now are hassling customers, what has it acheived?
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I don't know why they don't start charging for all day parking. There is so much free space in that carpark that all they need to do is charge £1 for all day parking and they'll be back to where they were before - with a half empty carpark - but instead of loads of irate customers, they'd have about £50 a day income from people like me.
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Over our way there is a shopping centre where the first hour is free, the second hour is not too bad but anything over is just mega expensive. This seems to work fine, if you are just popping into one of the shops you don't need to pay, if you are having a look in a few shops then you pay a little, but to stay all day would be just plain stupid as the mulit storie's in town would work out cheaper (although still very expensive).
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