Hello all, this is my first post. I've come across this site while researching for my new company car.
Firstly, let me set the background - I'm english but living in Belgium, I'm driving an Alfa 156 Sportwagon, all cars in Belgium nearly are diesel. Today the Alfa is completely inappropriate for our needs as we now have twin girls, rapidly approaching 1 year of age - we realise we need something bigger.
I'm a little bit loathe to move towards a full sized MPV as I like to drive a bit - my personal favourite is the 2.0 TDi Touran which is pretty fast, handles nicely and is VW so good build quality. However, my wife is pressurising me to take a Galaxy, Espace or 807 - tha latter because of the sliding doors...
Her argument is that we need the space. My argument is that we need the space 5% of the time when we go on vacation, the rest of the time and most of the week it will just be myself driving an empty van around. My solution would be to buy a luggage box for the Touran to boost the available volume as and when needed.
Does anyone out there have a simillar experience? Will I regret taking the smaller car, would I hate driving about in a Galaxy etc? I'm really stumped on this...
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I forgot to add, my wife has a Honda Jazz for getting the babies to crèche and herself to work. This is a fantastic little car and has more space than the Alfa when the seats are down.
I should also say that after many years of Alfa ownership I have finally had enough of bit dropping off and trips to the garage, I want something that will never break!
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How about an Opel Zafira 2.2DTI? They have 125bhp so pretty quick and have a good reputation. New model in 2005 so dealers will be ready to talk discounts I imagine.
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The Zafira is about the same size as the Touran and as it's a lease-car the price is relatively irrelevant. The real problem is over the space.
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The 2.2 DTI engine in the Zafira is old hat compared to TDi's, DCI's and TDCi's from VW, Renault and Ford and the new Vauxhall (Fiat built) CDTi's. The 2.2 DCI Espace is practicle though pricey.
If you need 7 seats go for a Grand Scenic 1.9 DCI 6 speed, if you dont a Focus C-Max 2.0 TDCi goes like stink out handles most hot hatches, is well built, well equiped, safe and does 50 mpg easiliy.
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I have test-driven both the Touran and Grand Scenic - the G Scenic is smaller than the Tournan and the C-Max is that much smaller again, no good when my wife wants me to have a Galaxy...
The G Scenic was very poor build quality - flimsy plastics all round and incredibly slow next to the Touran. On rough roads the Touran was far more composed. The only thing against the Touran is the wind-noise at speed but I think the roof bars have a lot to do with that.
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Well just go out and buy a Galaxy then. Clearly you do not need such a large car with only two children, even if they are twins. I have twice as many and a Zafira is fine thenk you very much.
SWMBO clearly wants a Galaxy and I suspect that you will therefore end up buying one so just give up and buy it! Let her use it all the time, whilst you drive around in the sensinble little car. :-)
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Oh no, if I can justify it I will take the Touran!
I have noticed that 2 kids and all the stuff fits in OK with the Touran but for a vacation with everything but the kitchen sink it's a bit tight, I know this because I rented one for a week, hence the pressure from the wife.
I really need testimonies like the one from hxj here telling me I don't need a Galaxy :-D
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Sorry but would recommend the 807. Maybe best that you don't let SWMBO see this but the sliding doors are brilliant, esp if you have 2 small children. Standing at the door strapping them in is so much easier when you are not holding the door open with your back, being careful not to hit the car next to you and worrying about the wind blowing it shut on you!
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I'd recommend the Galaxy but then I'm biased as I have one! I had a Scenic before which I passed on to my wife. Even if you enjoy driving, you would be surprised at how much you can "throw" the Galaxy around, the roadholding and ride are amazing for so tall and heavy a vehicle! However, it will roll quite a bit, so best to slow down when you have passengers on board. I can see how sliding doors could be a great advantage in many situations though - especially if your children are still very young. Full-size MPV's are quite wide, and opening doors in normal parking spaces can be quite a trial! Why not take a test drive in all the vehicles you are thinking of getting, including taking along child seats etc to see which best suits your needs?
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Don't think so, as VX have only just started putting the 2.2 D in the Zafira range although it has been available in the Vectra for a while longer.Yes it might not be up there with the latest technology but you do not exoect to get teething faults dealer/customer support can not fix.
As for Renault if it's a lease car then fine as it's not your money.Personally i would rather burn £20 notes than buy a french car
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I agree with you - with 2 children the Touran should have ample space. When the girls get a little older there won't be quite so much baby-impedimenta to cart around.
A possible alternative with plenty of space and likely to be reliable is a Honda Accord Tourer: the new diesel engine is very well reviewed, although you either love or loathe the looks.
A Honda CRV isn't quite as bulky as most 4 x 4s and friends who have them say they are good to drive. If your Jazz dealer is a good one, they should be keen to do a good deal for an existing customer.
Do let us know what you end up with.
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The Touran. It's a new design whereas the Galaxy (along with the Alhambra and Sharan) is getting on for 10 years old now.
They are still good to drive though and personal choice would, in this instance, be the Seat with the diesel engine as it's the best all round value.
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Thanks for your feedback everyone. I shall use it all in the ongoing discussions with wifey.
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Just thought I would add my few thoughts on this as I have been there and NOT done it. Our kids are now 7 and 11. When we had the paraphernalia of buggies, carry-cots, changing bags, Britax car seats, changing mats, toys, spare toys, ......
we looked at MPVs and decided in the end a family sized estate offered us exactly what we needed. Too many MPVs have small boot space with seats. Seven seats, however versatile, removeable, and flexible are useless and pointless unless you have need for them. We don't and neither do many people who buy them. Estates are also cheaper, better to drive and more economical.
Or am I missing something?
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I would agree that some people buy MPV's as a 'fashion' statement rather than through need and would also agree that a decent estate will always be better to drive. I switched from a Volvo 940 estate to a Mazda MPV turbodiesel earlier this year. I bought the Mazda because it offered the things I value most - reliability (hopefully), practicality (sliding & removeable seats, sliding doors etc.) and space at what I felt was a reasonable price (ex. demo with 4.5k miles for £15.5k). I like it very much and to date I haven't had a single problem with it (touch wood). The sliding doors on an MPV are very important IMO (moreso than I'd previously thought) because they're quite large and cumbersome. They don't get knocked or blown and can be opened in even the tightest spot. They also allow better access to the rear and there's reasonable luggage space even with all seats in use. Since I fairly regularly now travel with 5-6 people the choice has been worthwhile and even when there are only 5 people on board we often use the rear seats just to give those in the middle row a bit more space on long journeys. Let's face it, it's a bit cramped in the back of a normal car if you've got 3 adults in the rear. I'm very happy with 40 odd mpg coupled with the performance I get which was very surprising to me after moving from a 2.0 litre petrol turbo. If numbers hadn't been an issue however I'd have stuck with an estate but probably not a Volvo because the V70 is quite a bit smaller than my old 940 which I used to fill quite easily.
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Too many MPVs have small boot space with seats
It seems to me that the 5-seat MPV wins if you want to carry 5 adults, but an estate is better if you have a few kids plus their clobber. The kids fit OK in the back of an estate, but adult rear-seat passengers would prefer the extra space in the back of an MPV
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How about a Mondeo Tdci130 estate? Plenty of room in the back for the children and the boot is huge. Goes well, handles and rides very nicely for a large car.
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The mondeo has more space in the back than the Touran? I agree it certainly looks huge on the outside though...
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The main practicalities with kids and MPVs is most due to the height of the seats.
Its far easier to fit the kids into the child seats without bending over too much. Also the kids like it because they can see out and dont feel shut in.
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I haven't been inside a Touran so can't honestly compare but know that the rear legroom, headroom is good in the Mondeo (I run a Tdci estate). We have 2 large German Shepherds that go in the boot with room to spare. The boot is wide and deep but guess the Touran will have a higher boot space as a result of the higher sides.
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Indeed, I checked - Mondeo has 540 litres in the rear, Touran 695...
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Dabby, if you want the Touran get it - my wife a has an aged Spacewagon but the similarity is the rear seats fold into the floor , so as others have mentioned here you can either have a 7 seater or a decent Estate and you wont have to pfaff about taking out or putting back the seats. We have just come back from France in it as an Estate with me, SWMBO, SWMBO's sister and x2 pezzlets and my good lady does not understand the concept of travelling light. When we got there and had unpacked the rear seats were simply popped back up and hey presto we had room to separate the squabbling pair (the kids not the sisters !!). We couldnt have done that if they were in the garage at home.
I think that you really should analyse how much time you will use the car and for what. I suspect coming from a Sportwagon you may well regret trailing a great big MPV around empty most of the time. A sliding door might be fantastic but its pretty useless if its not being used much of the time.
I find with company car schemes there are always ways of 'arguing' that the car you want offers the best deal - nudge nudge wink wink - lease rates, tax burden Zzzzzzzzzzzz.
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The Citroen variant of the 807 ha more kit and is better value for money. Having done a shedload of research on a new MPV, this came out tops for me.
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I dont think I'll ever understand why everyone thinks that these days if you've got 2 kids you simply MUST buy a van with windows.
My mother seemed to cope just fine with 2 kids in a Ford Escort or whatever it was she had all those years ago.
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My mother seemed to cope just fine with 2 kids in a Ford Escort or whatever it was she had all those years ago.
A mischievious person might also question why a single male would need a two-litre saloon, when a smaller car can accommodate a whole family ;-)
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Go for the Touran. You simply can't justify that hulking great pile of metal for two tiny people and two adults. If it's so important that SWMBO takes the kitchen sink, fridge, microwave and worktops on holiday then hire a Sharan or a roofbox for the fortnight. If you go for the former, you'll have to explain that the holiday won't be so lavish due to all the fuel costs.....
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I've driven a Sharan a few hundred miles and, for something of its size, I'd rate it very highly. It feels like Ford, rather than VW, got to sort the handling on it, and it actually drives better than the previous generation Golf IMO.
(Maybe it's about expectation but I did find the handling remarkably good. Fuel economy was also about 50 mpg.)
Drive the two (or three) side by side: I'd expect that the 807 is the best people carrier, the Touran the best drivers' car and the Sharan something of a compromise although it is an old design now and, after all I've said in its favour, I'd still probably take a Touran in preference to it.
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>> My mother seemed to cope just fine with 2 kids in a Ford >> Escort or whatever it was she had all those years ago. A mischievious person might also question why a single male would need a two-litre saloon, when a smaller car can accommodate a whole family ;-)
Good point well made ;-)
Although mine was out of choice whereas the original poster seems to prefer not to, but feel he has to..
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mine was out of choice whereas the original poster seems to prefer not to, but feel he has to..
Fair enough!
It's intersting how the idea of what size car is needed changes according to economic circumstances. I read somewhere that the original Mini was popular cos in the 60s 'cos it was affordable and could fit a whole family ... whereas at the opposite extreme, American families apparently believe they need a huge SUV.
Been there myself: I persuaded myself at one point that I needed the biggish estate car I fancied, whereas if I was honest with myself it was just that I liked it and could afford it. In reality, it was a nuisance to park and took too long to heat up in winter, and I very rarely used all the space.
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The Citroen variant of the 807 ha more kit and is better value for money. Having done a shedload of research on a new MPV, this came out tops for me.
For me too. I ordered one last week.
Hawkeye
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Stranger in a strange land
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I think that although the Galaxy/Sharan/Alhambra are a fairly old design - they drive better then the Touran - dare I say typical VW handling.
The Touran may beat them in interior versitlity though.
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DONT BUY A GALAXY!!!
first hand experince, and heard the moans from plenty of others.
Only bad cars make the top 10 which car worst vehicle list - galaxy one of them.
Hired a 807 in france recently - not good, to wide, poor build quality and very expensive.
If you must have seven seats consider mazda or hyundai - both have decent diesels.
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Thanks for all the feedack - quite a lot since I last logged-in.
I think I finally persuaded the missus that the Touran is the best all-round for our needs. However now I've seen that for the same price I can take a C-Max Ghia with leather and the DVD entertainment system.
Hmmm...
As for company car tax - not a valid concept here in Belgium, I get my car and fuel without any penalty :-)
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Assume the C-Max is TDCi 2.0, if so much more fun to drive than a Touran plus the extra kit and, dare I say, Ford have a better reliability rating than VW these days.
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Yes cheddar, the 2.0 TDCi - only problem is the boot space is only 550 litres, that's 150 less than Touran.
On the other hand it also has a low allergy rating and as one of my girls has a bit of asthma might be really worth considering.
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I'd still say get a Galaxy - it is shorter than a Mondeo hatch (let alone the estate), the facelifted versions (post mid-2000) are significantly improved over the original 1995 versions although they look similar; and for something a little longer than a Touran, you will be amazed at what they will hold. Mine has served as a builders van carrying about 150 bricks plus bags of sand and cement and some Christmas presents all at the same time, a delivery van for 2 loads of Yellow Pages when my wife wanted some extra money last summer, a 7-seater limo for family celebrations and countless other "odd" trips with strange loads. It depends on your lifestyle I suppose, but you never have to wonder about "will it fit inside?"
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I would take the Cmax. That way you'll at least feel like you are driving around in a nice, well equipped reasonably fun to drive car when you are not carting stuff around, rather than a van with windows, as with the Galaxy.
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I'm back!
Well, after more research, lots of garage visits, some test drives, some discussion, more research, more garage visits, many sleepless nights and a stomach ulcer I have made a decision.
So, it will be the Touran 140bhp 2.0 TDi Highline (that's Sport model in UK I think) - beige interior and Indigo Blue exterior (I'm limited in colour choice you see).
Only question now is the options to take, hence my other post regarding the factory fitted Navigation System. I'm also thinking of taking the DSG auto gearbox as I do a lot of driving in Brussels and not having to sit on the clutch half of the time is quite appealing.
My take on the other cars, well I could have a Galacy Ghia with leather but it's too old a model. I love the exterior of the Espace but the interior design makes me queasy, I mean it's like something out of Space 1999. The design on the 807/C8 I just don't like at all - too whacky by far.
I also calculated that a Touran with a decent roof box has the same capacity as a Grand Espace so I'll purchase one to use as and when needed.
Any ideas on the best brand roof boxes??
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