This is a pub quiz, not a request for practical suggestions! :)
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As I understand it, if you sleep in the passender seat with the keys in the glovebox or on the dash then your okay
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It is not directly the whereabouts of the keys, it is a question of whether or not you intended to drive the vehicle.
So, for example, sleeping in the car with the keys in your pocket would be fine if you could show that you had previously made a phone call to your wife telling her that you were going to do so. Or had asked the landlord for his permission to do so - something which would show that you had no intention to drive it.
The whereabouts of the keys are merely taken as a useful indicator - i.e. if you haven\'t got the keys you clearly had no intention to drive.
On a slight tangent, I am reminded of the following;
Recently a routine police patrol parked outside a local neighborhood bar. Late in the evening the officer noticed a man leaving the bar so intoxicated that he could barely walk. The man stumbled around the parking lot for a few minutes with the officer quietly observing.
After what seemed an eternity and trying his keys on five different vehicles, the man managed to find his own car which he fell into.
He was there for a few minutes as a number of other patrons left the bar and drove off. Finally he started the car, switched the wipers on and off (it was a dry night), flicked the hazard flasher on and off, tooted the horn and then switched on the lights. He moved the vehicle forward a few inches, reversed a little and then remained stationary for a few more minutes as more patrons left in their vehicles. At last he pulled out of the parking lot and started to drive slowly down the street.
The police officer, having patiently waited all this time, now started up his patrol car, put on the flashing lights, promptly pulled the man over and carried out a breathalyzer test. To his amazement the breathalyzer indicated no evidence of the man having consumed alcohol at all!
Dumbfounded, the officer said \"I\'ll have to ask you to accompany me to the Police station this breathalyzer equipment must be broken.\" \"I doubt it,\" said the man, \"Tonight I\'m the designated decoy.\"
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But the policeman got him for using his horn late at night in a built up area...
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Providing it was after 11.30pm..
You can be charged with drunk driving even whilst on a pub's car park - any one driving, attempting to drive or in charge of a vehicle on the road or in a public place such as a supermarket car park, petrol station etc can be asked to provide a breath test by the police.
You can also be charged with being drunk in charge of a vehicle whether simply sitting, or even sleeping, in a parked vehicle with no intention of driving it.
It does, however, seem somewhat bizarre that people are treated the same as drunk drivers in such cases.
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>>You can also be charged with being drunk in charge of a vehicle whether simply sitting, or even sleeping, in a parked vehicle with no intention of driving it.
Not if you can show that you had no intention of driving - as it says repeatedly in this thread and the RTA.
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If you go to this link:
www.abd.org.uk/abd-bac.htm
and scroll to the bottom, you will read the ABD's view on this subject, which states:
"Removal or modification of the absurd "offence" of being drunk in charge of a vehicle whereby those simply sitting, or even sleeping in a parked vehicle with no intention of driving it are treated the same as drunk drivers."
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Read the Road Traffic Act.
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And there's the old one, of course, about the pile of sand, blocked exhaust pipe, and the starting handle.
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And there's the old one, of course, about the pile of sand, blocked exhaust pipe, and the starting handle.
Eh? Whassat'en?
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Two or three years back Glen Eagles Golf Club Golfer Left Keys at the reception and slept in the back of his 4X4 woken by police and breathalised and charged for drunken in charge of a motor vehicle. Charge upheld !! Regards Peter
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I doubt it. Unless he'd parked on the road.
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& even then he didn't have his keys?
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It is illegal to be over the drink limit and in your car whilst parked in your drive. You still have the possibility of being so drunk that you let the hand brake off and role down the drive and kill somebody.
Some people think that being in Safeways car park is not a public place. Well they drove into the car park without an invite, ticket of key, so it is a public place. All Public Highway laws apply, Road Tax, MOT, Insurance, Road Traffic Act Drink Driving all applies. The Glen Eagles incident hit the national press and was upheld in the appeal court a few months later which appeared onto to hit the Scottich Press. I am very surprised at some of the comments here and what some guys think is legal. Where is our 'legal beaver' Regards Peter
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Sorry, but I disagree, Peter, with your assertion about being parked in your own drive - where did you get that from? I was looking for practical application of s4 (3) of the RTA 1988 which states (here is s4 in full):
4 Driving, or being in charge, when under influence of drink or drugs
(1) A person who, when driving or attempting to drive a [mechanically propelled vehicle] on a road or other public place, is unfit to drive through drink or drugs is guilty of an offence.
(2) Without prejudice to subsection (1) above, a person who, when in charge of a [mechanically propelled vehicle] which is on a road or other public place, is unfit to drive through drink or drugs is guilty of an offence.
(3) For the purposes of subsection (2) above, a person shall be deemed not to have been in charge of a [mechanically propelled vehicle] if he proves that at the material time the circumstances were such that there was no likelihood of his driving it so long as he remained unfit to drive through drink or drugs.
(4) The court may, in determining whether there was such a likelihood as is mentioned in subsection (3) above, disregard any injury to him and any damage to the vehicle.
(5) For the purposes of this section, a person shall be taken to be unfit to drive if his ability to drive properly is for the time being impaired.
(6) A constable may arrest a person without warrant if he has reasonable cause to suspect that that person is or has been committing an offence under this section.
(7) For the purpose of arresting a person under the power conferred by subsection (6) above, a constable may enter (if need be by force) any place where that person is or where the constable, with reasonable cause, suspects him to be.
(8) Subsection (7) above does not extend to Scotland, and nothing in that subsection affects any rule of law in Scotland concerning the right of a constable to enter any premises for any purpose.
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It may be due to Scotland having a No Law of Trespass so your drive is a Public Place. I'm not sure. But car parks etc.etc. are "Other Public Places" and you do not have to actually drive the car to be prosecuted. To expand, if you ring your mate who only has a provisional licence and he comes and drives you back from the pub with you in the passenger seat then the passenger has committed the offense of Drunk Driving and the L driver gets prosecuted as well for aiding and abetting or somethingRegards Peter
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>>It is illegal to be over the drink limit and in your car whilst parked in your drive.
I really don\'t think so. Unless you were intending to drive, or had just been driving.
There is a big difference between a Safeways car park and your drive.
Excerpts from the RTA (my BOLDING);
4.?(1) A person who, when driving or attempting to drive a motor vehicle on a road or other public place, is unfit to drive through drink or drugs is guilty of an offence.
(2) Without prejudice to subsection (1) above, a person who, when in charge of a motor vehicle which is on a road or other public place, is unfit to drive through drink or drugs is guilty of an offence.
(3) For the purposes of subsection (2) above, a person shall be deemed not to have been in charge of a motor vehicle if he proves that at the material time the circumstances were such that there was no likelihood of his driving it so long as he remained unfit to drive through drink or drugs.
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5.?(1) If a person?
(a) drives or attempts to drive a motor vehicle on a road or other public place, or
(b) is in charge of a motor vehicle on a road or other public place,
after consuming so much alcohol that the proportion of it in his breath, blood or urine exceeds the prescribed limit he is guilty of an offence.
(2) It is a defence for a person charged with an offence under subsection (1)(b) above to prove that at the time he is alleged to have committed the offence the circumstances were such that there was no likelihood of his driving the vehicle whilst the proportion of alcohol in his breath, blood or urine remained likely to exceed the prescribed limit.
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.I am very surprised at some of the comments here and what some guys think
I couldn\'t agree more.
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And on another subject...
>>our \'legal beaver\'
Our what ??
Legal eagle; perhaps
Eager beaver; maybe
But \"Legal Beaver\" ????? - the mind boggles. I didn\'t know it was ever illegal.
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I'm surprised you haven't changed your mind having read the law.
It seems we are drifting & confusing the two scenarios.
1. Your own drive - not a public place. Pub carpark, probably likewise (which is why Mark's traffic cop waited until he'd pulled out of the pub carpark). Do what you like.
2. In a public place/on a road - provided you can prove that there was no likelihood you're OK. Which was the point of my question - what, practically, constitutes this proof.
The learner driver issue is quite a separate issue which is confusing this. It makes lots of sense, as the whole point of having a qualified driver in the passenger seat is that he is just exactly that!
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The fact remains that the Guy at Glenagles who had no keys as they were in the reception was prosecuted and banned from driving. Regards Peter
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I've searched the Daily Telgraph archive for 'Glen Eagles', and Gleneagles and there is no such reported case - although you state it was widely reported in the national papers. Perhaps you can help? It would no doubt help to know the particular circumstances of the case.
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>>The fact remains that...
...if he had not just been driving it, had handed his keys in to demonstrate that he would not be driving it until he was sober, then he could not have been prosecuted or banned for drink/driving or drunk in charge.
I suggest you find the story and check if there was slightly more to it.
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I've done a search of the Scotsman web site. Searching for terms like 'Gleneagles' and 'drunk driver' brings too many hits to wade through, but I did find a story about a man who was arrested after being found asleep in his (presumably) parked car. See news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=17392004 . I wonder if the fact that the keys were in the ignition was the decisive factor.
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Nah, it was because he was parked in a laybe 5 miles from the nearest pub ;)
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