espaceman
How does the clutch feel?
If it is 'soft and light' with no 'feel' then suspect air in the system.
If it is too heavy then suspect pressure plate ('cover') problem.
Compare it 'back to back' against another eqivalent Espace if you can, so as to gauge the difference.
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Sounds like you have a really helpful dealer there!
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My own Espace is about to have its third clutch hydraulic system fitted. The first started leaking at the master end, the present one wont disengage until the pedal is hard into the carpet. When I rebuilt the engine at 63000 miles over the Xmas break I fitted a new clutch as it had gone 'heavy' and I feared damaging the toy thrust bearings on the crank and the new one is much lighter. It is just a carp design (design...huh.. b***** contrivance more like) which is just another nail in the coffin of a brilliant concept. I suggest you find a competent independent to change the clutch and hydraulics for you. Personally while I have got it all apart this time I am going to see if I can either engineer a cable conversion or fit a conventional METAL master and slave system with reservoir and bleed facility in place of the plastic sealed system.
Andrew
Simplicate and add lightness!!
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Andrew Moorey (Tune-Up).
Thanks for the info.
Is your Espace 1999 2.2dt.
Any idea where to source a repair manual, or specs for master/slave output and pressure.
Thanks.
Espaceman.
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A *plastic* hydraulic system! Dear Lord, what next?
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Aprilia you took the words out of my mouth.
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Hi Espaceman, yep same beastie. Haynes dont do a book of lies for it yet but I suspect if they did it would be pretty thin, referring most jobs back to the main agent.I have no specs for the hydraulic system apart from the change time which is around two to three hours.
Another little tip. if any of the bulbs go in the dash panel make sure you fit exactly the correct wattage bulbs- 2.2w in the backlighters and 0.8w for all the telltales. The display goes all to cock if you fit the wrong bulbs showing all sorts of alarming STOP messages. If you ever need to get to the bulbs email me and I will tell you where all the hidden screws are!!
Andrew
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Hi, the light behind the radio/cd on our 98 2.2dt has mostly gone, tantalises us now and then by coming back on so must be a loose connection somewhere but would be useful to know about dashboard fittings as nothing is obvious!
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hi there, could you please tell me where all the hidden screws are, i have to replace the clutch master cylinder, and two bulbs on the dashboard, and i am stuck... thanks Bob
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 10/07/2008 at 14:04
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Repair manual? Try the Renault technical information cd sets, available on e-bay - like these
cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2474...0
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At least now I know I'm not going mad. Mine's a 2000, driven from new, now on 80k miles. (last of the DT engines)with exactly the same clutch problem and I,ve had two slave cylinders to date (I beat renault up and they actually paid for the second although out of warranty).
My main dealer, although quite reliable have been unable to fix the problem.I have to floor the clutch pedal at all times and sometimes it crunches slightly even then - seems to be dependant on how warm the weather is!
There's plenty of bite in the clutch, so is this a problem us 2.2 Dt owners just have to live with??
P.s I also had to have a new steering pump AND steering column as a result of it's failure, over (£1000) so maybe all Espace 3's hydraulics are pants?
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Another compelling reason to avoid Renaults!
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I have a 99 RTX petrol. Have had the same problem. All together have had three cylinders replaced, two complete clutches and a gearbox. The car has now done 70,000 miles ( on a different subject I'm on my third Cat !! )
I don't think it has anything to do with the clutch itself and think it is purely down to the hydraulic cylinder. Since the gearbox was replaced a couple of months ago the pedal needed to go right to the floor to change gear. I think the temporary disconnection of the cable was enough to allow rapid leakage on what was a already a failing cylinder. In the end I couldn't change gear at all.
I think if you try to hold your vehicle on a hill by slipping the clutch you will find that the clutch starts to bite very quickly, even when ensuring the pedal does not move. This seems to indicate a loss of pressure in the cylinder. This has happened to all my cylinders from new.
I have had no help from Renault or their agent so intend taking them to the small claims court for a refund of the cost of the latest replacement.
Oh and by the way. When they fitted the latest cylinder they fractured an air conditioning pipe ! Thats going to cost me another £200 plus !!
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What a nightmare.
I've been involved with the replacement of these cylinders - it involves stripping out part of the dash.
Even with a new one, the clutch engaged pretty close to the floor.
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The "designers" must be getting the message as the new clutch hydraulics I fitted the other weekend have a 'modified' master cylinder with a reservoir (although to fill it you need to remove most of the dash!) and a metal slave cylinder....with a bleed nipple!!!!!!!. Still engages pretty close to the floor but much better. Shame of it is in the meantime it has lunched the synchro cones on 2nd and 3rd. Latest evidence of carp "design" is the operating levers for the centre vents work via soft plastic 'hinges' which when subject to the "Erin Factor" (my 5 year old) broke after only about 5 minutes constant operation. Not available as a spare part so a whole centre section (£85) required! Give me strength!
Andrew
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Simplicate and add lightness!!
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Twenty years ago when my father and I were in the motor trade (mainly service/repair, but selling a few cars off the forecourt) he decided that we would no longer buy or sell Renaults because of the problems they caused us and the number of unhappy punters that came back. The 'straw that broke the camel's back' was a Renault 25 with an incurable clutch hydraulic fault. Its amazing that after all that time this company is still giving its owners such grief!
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...and to think, only a few weeks ago, HJ recommended the new Scenic! Time for a change of verdict perhaps - HJ are you out there?
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I cannot conceive of *any* circumstances under which I would buy a Renault.
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Ah yes, well you see I have a 1998 Scenic diesel with which I am well pleased, and which the wife uses as her car. Hopefully next year I will be in a position to change my car and was considering an Espace as ideally I'd like a diesel auto MPV. The choice is severely limited - basically it seems to come down to Trajet, Sharalaxy or Espace. Espace has by far the slimmest "A"-posts providing best field of forward view for driving but I am severely worried by the number of "technical faults" that seem to afflict the Espace.
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There's no doubt, in spite of it's niggles the Espace 3 was a great car, I had a demo series 4 for a day and did 250 miles. It was brilliant. No longer built by the demised Matra (the plastic body was very expensive to produce, hence cutting corners elsewhwere)
The phase 4 built by Renault themselves now seems to have othe build quality - so go for it!
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Just to straighten things out.did not realise rovers had the same clutch hydraulic or similar assembly.ie non bleedable if you have a prob with master or clutch slave is replace only.I at the time didnt realise this.so appologise for post i first made.I am sorry for the post did not at the time realise.
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I have a new Eapace Mk4 25/10/2003 the clutch failed in December and was replaced by dealer who could not explain it. I t fail again! after 100 miles, again was replaced without explanation, and yes your right it whet a third time, losing drive with out warning whilst overtaking at 70. I returned the car to the dealer and asked for a refund, but was told it was my fault and pay for the repair, yet I have never suffered any problems in 33 years and have a Ford Ranger in which I have covered 70k in a lot of time driving in welly boots due to my work. Could any one shed any light on this one?
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I have a 2.2 DCI (Sept 2002) took it into the garage for first service (18k) and to report clutch prob. Clutch bites practically on floor and pedal does not release fully back up therefore have to pull up with your foot or leave it half way down. Anyway they say they haven't come across this problem they think its hydraulics and its booked in under warranty for replacement next week - we'll see!
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That was the exact symptom of the first hydraulic failure on my shed, Master cylinder fault but of course, you have to change the whole shooting match.
Incidentally my neighbour has just taken delivery of a new Scenic. The one with a smart (dumb) card. Great, unlocks the car when you get within a few feet of it and locks and sets the alarm as you walk away. Trouble is the alarm keeps going off every few minutes!!!
Progress!!!!!
Andrew
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Re alarm, exact thing is happening with my friend's top of the range Scenic. Dealer cannot get to the bottom of the problem!
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Fixed my neighbours alarm problem, The bonnet pin switch was not fitted properly.
Andrew
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Simplicate and add lightness!!
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I thought I would update on my clutch. The hydraulics fitted last year failed at 11 months 1 week. Replaced again under warranty. New one only came with the remainder of one year warranty i.e. 3 weeks !! The new one failed after just 4 weeks
( aren't I lucky ) so it looks like I might have to pay for another one!!!
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Hi,
Whilst driving on Sat I noticed a small drip of hydraulic fluid on the clutch pedal. Half an hr later the clutch became totally soft, no resistance and would not come back up.
It's now in the renault dealers awaiting a new clutch master slave cyclinder.
It's 2001 2.2dci. Last yr in france one of the fuel distributor pipes failed and renault paid for it under warranty. The chap said it would be under warranty I did not have to ask. He fired the VIN in and told me.
Since I can't check the manual just now does anyone know for sure if mine is still under warranty at 42k miles ?
They quoted 7hrs grrr..
Ta
Nick
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An update.
Spent £570, to get a new hydraulic system fitted.
Basically fromjust behind the pedal all the way the the rod that pushes the clutch plate.
A dash out 5hr job.
This yr, 05/06, just before a yr from the above bit getting fitted, it failed again.
Local renault dealer refused to replace under warranty.
They saidit was the clutch plate. Then again next check said it was a different part.
And after repeated to and frowing to a 'trustworthy' garage dealer accepted it was the fitted part that failed and they fitted a new unit freely. No cost. 1 Week later the prt failed. The palstic cylinder, 6 inches ling, that contains the cylinder/piston that pushes the plate had cracked and was leaking fluid. Dealer replaced free again.
Now done 5k plus miles.
Cheers
Nick
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When I chose my MPV Renaults didn't even enter into the equation and on the numerous occasions I've been asked why it's ridiculous stuff like this I cite.
Renault seem to have produced what would be a fine car if only the same could be said of the components!
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Andrew
I want to change my master and slave cylinders for normal ones also, did you ever discover a spec that will fit? Or can be modified to fit?
Dan
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Sorry Dan, never got round to it. The Alternator failed, then I got a strong advisory that the rack would need changing before the next mot (65000 miles) and 4th gear went noisy, another engine out job was looming so I just got rid of the wretched thing.Never will a French car reside at Moorey towers again!!
I did give the matter a lot of thought and I reckon cable is the way to go. Speedograph Richfield would be able to make up the cable for you, you just need to engineer the pedal arrangement.
Andrew
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Simplicate and add lightness!!
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On another thread I was rude about Citroen designers in particular. I apologise: compared to Renault they are masters of the universe.
Why don't Nissan Engineering come to the rescue?
madf
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hi there, i have the same job to do, replace the master cylinder, Any tips or help from someone who has done one would be a great help.. hidden screws ? best way of doing the job ? and what to watch out for.... any help would be very welcome.. thanks Bob
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Did you have any luck in the small claims court?
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This may not be that relevant, but here goes.
Last month I had a driveshaft inner boot go west. Good independent garage in Lincolnshire replaced it and then had to top up the gearbox oil (with quite a bit of oil they said as they lost a lot when pulling out the driveshaft).
Next day I could barely get the car in gear! Never had this issue before, so the mechanic who did th job went with me to the Renault dealers in search of a remedy - being the only thing w'd replaced was the gearbox oil.
It turns out that its no good just using any old gear oil thats the right viscosity/API etc as the oil in espace gearboxes is very, very specific - and dear too.
We bought the 'right oil' from Renault, drained and replacd it and hey presto, car goes in and out of gear perfectly!
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