From the Bristol Evening Post (tinyurl.com/22zn7)
Another flag in the air? I know that I slept through most of the lectures in my politics module at university, but I socialism was something different to this
11:17 - 05 February 2004
Drivers and motoring organisations today responded with outrage to plans to charge people £5 to use fast lanes on motorways. In a move seen by many as a first step towards a nationwide congestion charge, the outside lane on stretches of motorway would have specially designated pay-as-you-go fast lanes under the plans.
Motorists would be tracked using cameras and satellite technology so that as soon as they entered the pay lane they would be billed.
And, with charges likely to work out at about 16p a mile, estimates suggest that the average driver would pay an extra £2,000 a year.
The Association of British Drivers slammed the plans as "stupid, greedy and dangerous".
Spokesman Tony Vickers said: "If this is a case of simply transforming the existing fast lane, then it's stupid, greedy and dangerous.
"The consequence would be the vast majority of drivers bunching into the two inner lanes. And bear in mind that the slower lanes are often occupied by heavy goods vehicles with a speed limit of 60 mph.
"It is a recipe for an increase in accidents and irresponsible behaviour on the motorway.
"I can't see any justification why motorists should pay to use motorways which are already inadequate in many cases.
"We will end up with one first-class lane for those who can afford it, and two for the rest who can't. It's in line with the greed and hostility of Government advisers in their approach to the use of speed cameras.
"They're largely a bunch of left-wing academics who think driving is an abuse like drinking or drug use and seem set on making driving an unpleasant experience."
The idea is being investigated by Tony Blair's Strategy Unit, which draws up future policies.
Ministers believe that the move would cut congestion, protect the environment and raise money. They have been impressed by the congestion charge in London, in which motorists pay £5 to drive in central London between 7am and 6pm.
The next stage would be to introduce the charge everywhere. Satellites would monitor the movement and speed of every car at all times, and issue drivers with charges and fines.
A Downing Street spokesman said: "We look at a lot of ideas like this. It's one that has been floating around the think-tanks but as yet it's not part of any Government policy."
West MP David Heathcoat-Amory, said the proposal was a "revenue gimmick".
He said: "The Government is waging a war on motorists. The Treasury is short of money, and this is just another tax on the long-suffering motorist."
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I've seen this sort of reporting before it's probably a lot of hype to sell papers - I can't belive that any govenment would be that stupid.....
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I can\'t belive that any govenment would be that stupid.....
Want a bet?
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I've seen this sort of reporting before it's probably a lot of hype to sell papers - I can't belive that any govenment would be that stupid.....
You've not heard of the M4 bus lane, then?
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As it stands this suggestion looks daft. But if the satellite tech is so hi-, why not charge vehicles to use the fast lane at more than 75mph? That would seem fair and reasonable? It wouldn't exclude drivers from the lane, but would bring in some cash for special privileges. How about 1p/mile for every 1mph above 75?
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Andrew-T is right. Lets have a lane where the faster you go the richer you look. I'll set up a business destricting German cars. Soon have enough for the fast lane myself.
I've always thought we need a lane for Bavarian cars.
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Oh what a surprise, it's turned into the BMW bashing thread.
Can we avoid that topic of conversation in relation to this thread please? Pretty please? Pretty please with a cherry on top?
If the pleading fails to work, some good old-fashioned heavy handed moderating might.
hint hint.
No Dosh
mailto:Alan_moderator@honestjohn.co.uk
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If satellite technology is that good why not use it for catching tax-dodgers, insurance dodgers, MOT dodgers etc. Better still, save millions and use existing technology for doing the same thing first before going into all these exotic ways of raising revenue?
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I like the idea that allows rich people their own lane,oh dear that probably means silver German cars(but not VWs).
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No Dosh>>Oh what a surprise, it's turned into the BMW bashing thread.Who mentioned BMW`s there are other motors that can go over 70mph and I have noticed a lot are Vauxhall not saying all
that exceed speed limit but I doubt those that do would admit
anyway.
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Who mentioned BMW`s
mech1,
To quote Maz, "I've always thought we need a lane for Bavarian cars."
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Who mentioned BMW`s
BMW's what? It's that possesive apostrophe again. Takes no prisoners.....
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I can't respond to this without resorting to expletives, frankly! Last one out of the UK please switch off the lights :-)
teabelly
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I can think of one government that would be stupid enough to try this on.As the Conservatives advertised in the late 70's labour ain't working why ? cause they can't get to work with all the roadworks,speed cameras and congestion charges.Last one out switch the lights off.
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Could it work? seems very difficult to me.
In my case, I don't use motorways for work, rarely have to get anywhere on them in a real rush so my use of the outside lane is not that frequent. On a typical trip up the M1 for 100 miles to Leeds to see my son for instance, I might use the outside lane 4 or 5 times, for a few hundred yards in each case. Would they bill me for each of these per mile or charge me a fiver (minimum charge say)for each use of that lane. On the other hand if I drove all the way up would they charge me a fiver for being in the lane once or bill me per mile?
What happens when the m-way is reduced to a crawl? - will everybody try to get out of that lane reducing the m-way to effectively 2 lanes? Even worse, will 2 lanes be full and moving v. slowly while the outside lane is relatively free of traffic with idiots driving along it at 90 mph (speed differential between middle and outside lanes of potentially 90 mph - v. dangerous!). Will they charge people who remain in the "fast" lane when it is moving slower than the inside lane?
Of course, they could ensure a good income by closing the two inside lanes for roadworks and still charge us!
No doubt the satellite technology will be so sophisticated that it will track every user of the outside lanes perfectly without any errors and will also allow for all those false plate, none-taxed, cloned, stolen cars that always escape these charges.
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P.S Do any of these academic/politicians who propose these daft schemes ever have to drive our m-ways or do they all have all-expeses paid rail and air tickets or chaffeur driven cars? Stick 'em all on a trip round the M25 then send them to Preston via the M1,M6 on a Friday from 4pm onwards to see what it is really like. Make them do it every day before they are allowed to go to their wine bars and back to their families/mistresses/Chequers - then we might see a decent m-way system
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This is not a new idea; Thatcher proposed it in the early 1980's. There were plans to section-off the outside lane and install toll booths, although these would not be necessary now because of ANPR etc.
I think the idea failed last time because someone in CCO twigged that if there is only one lane then when one thrusting young exec comes up behind a slightly slower thrusting young exec there is nowhere to overtake.
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"A Downing Street spokesman said: "We look at a lot of ideas like this. It's one that has been floating around the think-tanks but as yet it's not part of any Government policy.""
..disclaimer quote from the original article
Why do we get worked up over pie-in-the-sky ideas that are never going to happen. The civil service has loads of strokey-beard types sitting around all day smoking pipes and dreaming up bizarre ideas, 99% of which are nothing more than an intellectual exercise. What a great laugh they must have - leaking the outlines of an preposterous idea to some ambitious young hack and waiting for all the fish to bite.
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Why do we get worked up over pie-in-the-sky ideas that are never going to happen.
erm, who got worked up Adrian?
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As there is no such thing as a fast lane there should be no problem.
I thought the pedants here would have known that.
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If, as some figures suggest, 10% of cars are uninsured, untaxed, no MOT, etc etc, then it seems that this is the easiest way to tackle congestion throughout the whole country.
If the London CC has cut traffic by 13% and had such wonderful results then lets scrap 10% of the cars on the road. (Oh - but that would mean the Nº11 would loose out on some revenue!!)
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Another ploy would simply be to stop issuing new driving licences for a few of years until the number of drivers comes down to the number that the road system can cope with.
The Grim Reaper and totting up of points would soon get ten percent of drivers off the raods.
And by the way, the London Congestion Charge is only a success in that it has reduced the traffic in a limited central area to buses, taxis and vans, whilst leaving the surrounding bits of London worse than ever with the displaced traffic.
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Brian - .. and the space created will be filled by a few more unlicensed drivers ..
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Hmmmm, suprised I'm the first to bring this up, but 'Fast Lane'?
I was always under the impression we dont have a 'Fast Lane', but an Outside Lane used for overtaking.
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Graham, Michael - it's a figure of speech .. ..
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While the original can partly be regarded as a troll, anyone thought of the mighty power that could be wielded by the middle lane owners club?
"Overtake me and you'll pay!"
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...used by those travelling fast. But not actually overtaking?
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well as the "fast lane" is filled with white van drivers,,.... just introduce a "white van Tax " or is that racist?-)
madf
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