Volume II now closed. For continuation of these discussions, please see Vol. III:-
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=23783
This thread is for the discussion of all things related to mobile phone use at the wheel.
Volume I is now closed www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=18152&...f
This is Volume II. Once we hit around 100 posts this thread will be made \"read-only\" and we will open Volume III.
Usual rules apply; two falls, or a submission. No, hang on, that\'s wrestling. Anyway, you know the drill by now. If you don\'t please read the smallprint:
www.honestjohn.co.uk/credits/index.htm
No Dosh
mailto:Alan_moderator@honestjohn.co.uk
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I just read a suggestion that the Police be given the power to confiscate mobile phones when used while driving - Magistrate to decide whether said phones be returned to owner, or destroyed.
Any thoughts on this?
Matt35.
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Does this mean they have the power to confiscate all things that can distract us whilst driving?And does this include car radios and my kids fighting in the back?And does this apply to the police when they are using their phones?
The book 1984 is becoming reality.
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Reminds me of school, "I'm confiscating that pea shooter - you're mum will have to come in and claim it from the head if you want it back"
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Perhaps they should be allowed to confiscate the car instead, as a better deterrent?
HF
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HF
As a better deterrent to what?Using the phone?
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As a deterrent it worked and I never did take a pea shooter to school again!
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Cardew
No need to take one to school you can make one with a biro!Just as effective but covert at the same time
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Cardew No need to take one to school you can make one with a biro!Just as effective but covert at the same time
Maybe it was the constant threat of nuclear annihilation when I was at school (thanks for the sleepless nights Mr Reagan) that resulted in the development of the ultimate peashooter.
Take one bike pump, one small wad of chewed paper, or for preference some plasticine or BluTac.......
VERY effective.
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No Dosh
Sounds like the AK47 of peashoters
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No Dosh Sounds like the AK47 of peashoters
There was one final refinement, but not for regular use. Take a box of "snappits" (those twists of paper with the ammoniasomething or other crystals in that explode when you drop them) and incorporate this in a wad of BluTac......
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Glad to see this was not for regular use.......... i suppose it was only used when SAS style tactics were called for!!!!!
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>There was one final refinement, but not for regular use. Take a box of "snappits"...
You are an amateur. Cut the ends off your shoelaces to give half an inch of lace and the plastic end bit. Unpick the lace bit so you have a "flight" and push a pin through the plastic end from the lace side. Now you have a tiny dart that can be used in a biro-based peashooter.
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Mobile telephones in cars please.
Nothing else.
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T-Bod,
Biro? Only pen and ink allowed at my school - still blotting paper had its uses as a missile!
C
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I thought that British Law gave us some basic rights, one of which was something along the lines of "no property can be taken from any man without an order from the court"
Can our learned friends on the site comment?
V
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Vin,
"Can our learned friends on the site comment?"
and copy Dover Customs and Excise?
Matt35.
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This will get moved to the current "mobile phone" thread later today.
DD.
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OK then, does that mean we can confiscate any scameras which are not sited at accident blackspots / not luminous yellow / hidden behind signs etc...?
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I suppose so - if you want a garden full. You could paint them red and call them gnomes
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Did anybody else see the report in the Sun today regarding the court case in Exeter. A chap driving along using a HANDS FREE mobile got too engrossed in the conversation, hit another vehicle and killed the driver. He was sentenced to 4 years in jail and a 10 year driving ban. I someone had confiscated his mobile one more person would be unawares of what they had missed, and he would be free. I'm all for confiscation!
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a worrying sign: just heard an MP talking on radio about how he pulled into side of road to answer phone (not on hands-free set up). Was talking when PC came up and wagged warning finger, saying: "You're still in charge of the car while engine's running..."
crazy, surely?
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"You're still in charge of the car while engine's running..." crazy, surely?
crazy yes, but the law does state that if not hands free, then the engine should not be running when using the phone.
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And parked in a safe legal position i.e. not on a clearway not on the hard shoulder of the motorway and not anywhere where you cause another road user to cross a solid white line. Peter
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This REALLY happened I swear. Minimal details to protect the guilty.
Attended a sporting event in my home town yesterday (Saturday), upon leaving the ground and walking to my vehicle I pull out my mobile and call a friend on his mobile as pre-arranged to give him the score and discuss the details (he too is from my home town). Score/chat, where are you by the way? \'Going round M25\', hope your on a hands free says I. \'pink fluffy dice to that nonsense says he\'. And his job is...
Yep, Detective Inspector for a large police force based in the South of England.
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Has anyone else here noticed the latest spin off from the mobile phone law. The ignoramuses that still drive around with the phone switched on and can't be bothered, or are too tight, to buy a hands free kit, now just pull up in traffic, switch off their engine (as required by law) and proceed with the call whilst everybody else has to wait behaind them or wait for a gap in the oncoming traffic to get around them. I've seen this 4 times in the last 2 weeks.
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Yes Ive noticed this a few times aswell. Worse, I read in a newspaper on saturday this has caused at least one fatality when a car stopped suddenly to answer his/her phone, the avoiding action of the car behind caused a serious crash!
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Whilst going round the M25 yesterday morning a Porsche 5 cars in front suddenly slammed on its brakes and veered from the fast lane onto the hard shoulder causing two minor rear end shunts. The reason for this erratic piece of driving?
Her mobile rang and as there was a police car in front of her she panicked. The policeman explained to her that it may have been a little safer if she had waited until she got to the services or a safe place to stop and rung the person back. Her answer to this was that it would have then cost her money to call back. Bear in mind this was an 03 plate 911 GT3 that would have cost a fortune and she was too tight to ring someone back!
Explains why she didn't have a hands free kit I suppose, more expense.
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How do you think she saved up the cash for a GT3 then? By always arranging for people to call her, perhaps!
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Mobile phones may be just as dangerous immobile.
Yesterday I was confronted by two females in a Corolla heading straight at me. Luckily I was on the Hog so taking evasive action was easy. Not so the Isuzu pickup behind me who got head-on-ed. I parked up the bike and went back to see if I could help (carefully, if a foreigner is involved anything usually gets blamed on him -- more money to extort d'you see?)
No one hurt but two females crying. I asked what happened? She said it's not my fault I dropped my cellphone and was trying to find it.......
A new evil is visited upon us...the cellphone. But GRowlette has one of those fancy jobs with a camera in it, says it could be useful for recording mulcting traffic cops issuing fake tickets next time we get caught.
Two sides to everything.
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Good to see on the local news last night that a member of the public reported a police officer for using her mobile phone while driving a marked car. officer was fined the £20 and told off severely.
About time the public started to fight back.
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Is it illegal to use your mobile on a bike - without a hands free kit off course???
Just curious since the cycling thread has appeared?
Leon
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The Regs only apply to any person DRIVING a motor vehicle of which a Pedal Cycle is not.
All is not lost however as a rider could fall to be reported for careless riding of a pedal cycle. This used to be used against drivers pre ban (or not in position to have proper control Vehicles only).
DVD
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I've been driving a bit more than usual over the last few days and don't think I've ever seen so many drivers using mobile phones. Yesterday on the way to drop wife off at hospital I came across a woman driving a very large new MB whilst chatting on the phone. At one junction she nearly lost control but simply carried on chatting and luaghing as she 'drove'. On the way back about 40 minutes later I chanced upon her again, this time with her young daughter (I presume) in the car and on the way back home. She was still chatting merrily away, laughing and gesticulating as if she were sitting in a cafe having a chat and totally oblivious of what was going on around her. This is not a sexist post BTW - I've seen plenty of men chatting away too and am wondering just who is supposed to be enforcing this law. The reality is that around here we rarely see the police unless they're speeding past on the way to an emergency somewhere. The chances of getting caught are therefore miniscule IMO and you have to wonder just what is the point of having a law that is so widely ignored.
BTW - there must be a brake light virus around here too because there seem to be no end of cars with defective ones and again, nothing ever seems to be done by way of enforcement.
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You need two things - i) Police on patrol ii) Police on patrol willing to pull people for motoring offences. If it's not a priority they won't pull people. A guy nearly ran in to me in a car park at the weekend (car park properly marked with Give way dashes at the end of the aisles) when he drove straight out. Guess what, he was on the phone. My wife put her hand to her ear and shaked her head to advise him not to talk and drive, he just carried on regardless. I also saw an Eddie Stobart driver on the phone on the motorway. Unfortunately I was on my own so couldn't get the truck details, if I had it would have been an e-mail to Eddie who has been known to sack drivers for not wearing the company tie, never mind driving 38 tonnes whilst on the phone!
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Did not BiB promise a settling in period where advice would preceeded prosecution. By the sound of it that period is about to come to an end. Yesterday news item that one Force is to wield the stick and crack down by special operations.
However I do take you point Vman.
DVD
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Correct, as usual, DVD - they did but I'm not sure the end of the 'amnesty' is going to make much difference. The is a large police station off Orpington High Street so there is quite a lot of coming and going. I've lost count of the number of times I've seen police going to/from ignoring bad driver behaviour, illegal parking on pedestrian crossings, defective brake lights etc. I don't know what their responsibilities are now but if they're not going to stop people with no brake lights, for example, are they going to bother stopping people using mobiles? Furthermore if the truth is that they've just got too much to do without having to worry about drivers using mobile phones, what was the point of introducing the law?
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I'm afraid the only 'system' that might work is self-regulation. When there are probably over ten million vehicles moving about, supervision is clearly impossible, and irresponsible drivers just take their chances, usually getting away with anything except accidents which force them to stop.
By the same token I think it is a waste of time expecting the authorities to act as prefects on street corners or in moving spy-cans. Drivers have to be persuaded that the rules are to protect the public (including themselves) and not there to create an increasingly complex game of cops & robbers.
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Thames Valley Police have announced that now the 2 month grace period is over, they are going to set up road patrols to catch the mobile phone users. Who'll monitor the speed cameras I wonder?
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Now the new law has come in to play; has anyone else noticed cars stopping in bad/dangerous/ inappropriate places to use the phone. Blocking traffic and being a hazard.
Or have I just been lucky!
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Absolutely,
2 favourite examples are: in the middle of the road 3 yards before it reaches a T Junction, also on a busy A road, without pulling over to the curb.
Also helps if they dont use their hazards!
So round here, not only do you still have loonies driving everywhere at 80mph with phone clamped to ear, you now get unthinking "law abiding" loonies creating random hazards.
I congratulate both these drivers for creating a totally new hazard as well as the denizens of the Palace of Westminster for yet another apalling law.
Regards
Vercin
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"..you now get unthinking "law abiding" loonies creating random hazards"
And no doubt feeling virtuous for stopping - after all, they are doing what they've been told...
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Whoops sorry MODs for not putting this here in the first place.
Grovvle....
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I understand that this isn't strictly motoring so if I say:
"I bought a handsfree kit to allow me to DRIVE safely" it may be more appropriate.
I have a mobile handsfree kit in the form or 2 earpieces. Recently I got told that these were worse than holding the mobile phone as the RF signals or whatever were directed straight into your ear. Surely this isn't true as I would have thought the so called 'danger' of mobile phones was the fact that you were holding the headset and so the antennea next to your head. Earpieces reduce this.
Any thoughts welcome
--
"Ah...beer - my only weakness - my achilles heel if you will"
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If by 'worse', you mean that the earpiece may direct more of the radiation around your head, then quite possibly - the long lead can act as an aerial.
There were some tests a while back which showed that some were better than others but I don't have details.
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ESSO Petrol stations were doing a handsfree kit for £4.99 that plugs into your ciggie lighter and mounts on the air grille on the dash.
This fits a wide range of phones and the speaker mounts on a point near the driver's head, so that he can hear the conversation amplified by the tiny speaker.
You can talk normally and be heard by the person at the other end. I was sceptical at first but I am absolutely amaized at the clarity. I bought a second for my van.
At £5 there is really no excuse for not having a hands free kit ... unless you don't have a mobile phone of course!
However, they are OK IMO for taking a call whilst driving but I do feel that involved conversations, negotiations etc should be done whilst stationery.
Hugo
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tinyurl.com/3hm7b
Makes you wonder which is safer, talking whilst moving, or stopping!
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A third ,and safest option, is not talking on the phone at all!
It isn't compulsory to use a phone in a car.
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Don't see how this can be attributed to mobile phone use. Would have been the same outcome had he stopped there to post a letter etc etc etc
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What do you mean a victim of the law ?
The law didn't cause him to get hit by a car. And irrespective of the law, I assume that he would have stopped rather driving whilst phoning anyway ?
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A sad story. If you are going to stop to use your telephone it is probably best to pull right off the road rather than stop on the side, as it seems might have happened in this situation.
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Same if you are going to be stopping for any reason surely?
This accident wasn't caused by a mobile phone call. It was caused by the car that ran into the back of the victims car.
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Was nt suggesting any of the above! I was just showing an example of someone who stopped to use their mobile and the consequences in this particular instance. So beware.
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This accident wasn't caused by a mobile phone call. It was caused by the car that ran into the back of the victims car.
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But the tendency now is to isolate the politically "preferred" factor from the various contributory factors and assert that it is the "cause" of the accident.
See the endless speed camera debate where 7% plus unrelated stuff = 30% which is nearly a third so "One third of accidents are caused by excessive speed" therefore we need more speed cameras....
Reminds me of the politician's syllogism:
"Something needs to be done!"
"This is something"
"Therefore it needs to be done"
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..............and The Northern Echo PR states that he had pulled into a Lay by to make the call and was then hit at the rear by Madam ?
DVD
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Is that a question DVD, or have you read it somewhere else? The gazzette article I posted states he had pulled into a layby to make the call and was then hit from behind
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You will be aware that there are those who will jump at the slightest chance to blame use of mobiles for accidents and as a result of the new legislation, also attacking that as the cause of accidents through stopping on the road to make/take calls.
The Evening Gazette implies that the deceased's vehicle pulled up and stopped on the road
>>>>It is believed the driver of the Passat may have overtaken a bus shortly before colliding with Lee's car parked on the A177 Stockton to Sedgefield road.>>>
which is not correct according to N Echo. By being off the road in a Lay By then the accident causation factor is other than connected with mobile phones.
DVD
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as a new law passes through i have to ask, why when the use of phones is banned is it ok to have multi function in car computers and screens? a phone is a hand held object meaning your eyes are not commited to it (for long) but a dash screen!!!!!! why is this so???
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Pop along to Westminster and ask one of the windbags that backed this ill-conceived piece of legislation. Typical response is that the law doesn't have to make sense, it just has to be enforced.
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Its a good law, I've seen some awful driving when people are on the phone, even people mounting pavements at high speed, if anyone was walking along they would have been killed.
What did you do before mobile phones existed ?
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I didn't say the idea of getting people off the 'phone was bad, simply that the legislation was very poorly drafted. The definitions are so loose and woolly, with so many holes, that the law looks like Compos's string vest.
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Probably, in the same way that it has taken many years for hand-held phones to be outlawed (and wasn't it crazy in the days when we were allowed to use mobiles but not take a bite from a sarnie?) then in several more years' time satnav and all the rest of these devices will be banned too? (might be totally wrong there because have never witnessed satnav at first hand).
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Over the last week I've seen at least a dozen drivers blatantly using hand-helds. Worst exmaple was today when I watched a van driver negotiate mini-roundabouts in a town centre while talking and at one point, using his free hand to change gear .
I'm afraid that after the publicity about it- people think no-one's watching any more (which might be true) - so they can continue to do what has always been stupid but which is now also illegal .
And before anyone starts , yes, I also think other distractions are serious , usch as lighting cigarettes, etc, but I guess it'd be harder to enforce a law around that . Because other things distract also doesn't mean phone use shouldn't be stopped .
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I saw this article this morning on silicon.com
www.silicon.com/management/government/0,39024677,3...m
I really, really hope it's an April 1st wind-up
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Excelent idea.
I like one the replies to the article
Name: Tony W Blair
Country: London
Occupation: MP
Comments: The motion was passed only with the amendment that only the west part of london, is exempt only if you can prove you were conducting a million pound contract and your name ends in MP.
In addition a conservative motion that all transvestites can talk on their mobile phones whilst driving as long as they aren't doing their makeup at the same time.
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From my observations the introduction of the law against "holding" a mobile 'phone while driving has made little or no difference :-(
I see muppets everyday using their 'phone while driving.
and let's face what's the incentive to stop? you have more chance of getting a parking/ speeding ticket than being nicked for using your 'phone.
Slightly off topic but related....
even worse :-( I saw a parent with a young child of maybe 6 or 7 years, unbelted in the front of the car, the child kneeling facing backwards over the seat, while the parent chatted away on the hand held mobile, whilst driving an estimated 50/60 MPH.
:-(
JaB
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"From my observations the introduction of the law against "holding" a mobile 'phone while driving has made little or no difference :-(
I see muppets everyday using their 'phone while driving."
Agreed! Though I would say the fewer numbers observed driving on the mobile are largely offset by the increased numbers stopped in barmy places so they can take a call.
Equally a hands free kit doesn't automatically mean one is driving responsibly. Yes Mr Blue Toyota Land Bruiser M40 Saturday morning lane 2 to off slip in one easy movement sans any signal, crossing lane 1 passing 18" in front of my front bumper. I do mean you! Twonk!
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What colour is our esteemed moderator's vehicle?
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Blue. And I live by the M40 which I use all the time.
I panicked as well, then I realised that I was at home gardening all day - so it wasn't me.
Although I *do* have a plumbed in hands free kit.
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What colour is our esteemed moderator's vehicle?
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oops, forgot about that!
just for the record, old geezer, grey hair, Amos Brearley side whiskers.
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>> What colour is our esteemed moderator's vehicle? >> oops, forgot about that! just for the record, old geezer, grey hair, Amos Brearley side whiskers.
But he claims he was gardening ;o)
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I actually spilt my coffee I was laughing that hard at the image of Mark with a set of bushy sideburns. Most amusing that it should be a blue landcruiser on the M40....
Are you sure you hadn't donned a disguise to nip down the garden centre?
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Just this afternoon, passed a blue Peugeot, driver engaged on a clearly highly amusing call, with left indicator going who set off as I passed. He'd probably clocked me but not the trailer and the mower on board snapped his door mirror forwards. I didn't stop and no damage to the mower.
Hawkeye
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Stranger in a strange land
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I agree. I see so much of such nonsensical behaviour that it depresses me. It also frightens me, e.g. the young woman on the phone, with baby in passenger seat, wobbling over the white line while approaching me in a lane that is only just wide enough to have a white line. Hey ho, there's not a lot that can be done while the authorities consider their job to be done best by money-making machines.
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Is it just me that abids by the law of not using a hands held phone while on the moove? The reason I ask is that nearly every driver I see seems to have a mobile phone inplanted in their ear oblivious to to the law or anything that is happening around them.Do these people think that they are so important that they are above the law or just simply stuppid?
rustbucket (the original)
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An fairly well-worn argument perhaps, but is it that they realise with the ever-declining numbers of police on our roads they are less and less likely to get caught. Cameras don't catch the phone user!
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Further to HJs earlier post, I am fed up with the amount of people that need to walk about shopping centres with either their blue tooth, or even a wired headset on.
Why? Have they all forgotten how to hold one? Do they not realise how stupid they look?
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Funny isn't it, the things that annoy people.
When I see them I think how much closer we are to becoming bionic...
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I find the modern day pre-occupation with mobile phones hard to understand. Everywhere you go you see apparently normal people SHOUTING into the wretched things , just so the whole world can see that they, the user, is "cool" enough to have the latest model!
AS for the "texting" phenomenon - Why?
I am a luddite in this , I know. I am computer literate, fax maxhine literate!, but I refuse to bother to learn the myriad functions that SWMBO's mobile has - it's HER phone, not mine.
Roger.
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I find the modern day pre-occupation with mobile phones hard to understand. Everywhere you go you see apparently normal people SHOUTING into the wretched things , just so the whole world can see that they, the user, is "cool" enough to have the latest model!
AS for the "texting" phenomenon - Why?
I am a luddite in this , I know. I am computer literate, fax maxhine literate!, but I refuse to bother to learn the myriad functions that SWMBO's mobile has - it's HER phone, not mine. Roger.
I agree with you :-) Mrs JaB 'phone has a camera.... mine has internet access...
You know what? If I want to take digital pictures I use my Digital camera... If I need the internet, I use a connected PC.
What I need from a 'phone is the ability to make 'phone calls.
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Is it just me or is hand-held phone use coming back to levels we saw before the ban?
Over the last few days I have had the fright of my life as a car on a country road , coming towards me , started to drift across to my side -driver on phone - he realised then jerked the car back on line ; also on foot a couple of days ago I saw the driver of an artic negotiate a mini-roundabout in a village, with kids on the pavement nearby , while he was using his phone .
What do we have to do to stop these people ?
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Quick story about cars sending an sms to the owner telling them they need to get serviced.
www.theregister.co.uk/2004/07/02/sms_car_alerts/
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Yes...well us Omega owners could come up with a set of pre-defined SMS messages no doubt....
1) Your cam belt / idler pulley / water pump bearing is about to fail.
2) Your cam cover gasket is leaking oil onto the hot exhaust again.
3) Your idle speed control valve is getting sticky again.
4) Your front suspension bushes are wearing out again.
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