Peugeot 406 2.1TD - NightMare ! - Technojunkie
Recently, a nut that secures a cam belt tensioner on my Peugeot 406 2.1TD sheared and resulted in serious damage to the cylinder head assembly components. Fortunately, there was no damage to any of the valves. The cylinder head is now being repaired requiring a complete set of 12 new rockers, followers, head kit (gasket etc?), head bolts and some other items. The parts bill is about £ 650.- and, including labour, the total bill will be about £ 1100.-.

The garage that has diagnosed the problem and is undertaking the work is the same local garage (not a Peugeot main dealer) that changed the timing belt six months ago. Since the timing belt was changed the car has covered 7,000 miles.

Have I just been unlucky by the fact that this nut has sheared, is it a known problem with this particular Peugeot engine or, could it be something that the garage did or did not do when they changed the timing belt six months and 7,00 miles ago ?

Any comments or advice would be much appreciated.


Peugeot 406 2.1TD - NightMare ! - clachnacudden
sorry to hear that mate...
Peugeot 406 2.1TD - NightMare ! - RichardW
It's very rare to hear about cam belt problems on XUD engines - unless thay have covered lots of miles or the changes have been neglected. The 2.1 uses a slightly different arrangement on the tensioner to the 1.7 and 1.9 versions, though.

Since the garage only did the belt 7,000 miles ago, I would be making strong representations to the management that they were at least partially at fault (for either over or undertightening a fixing) and that they should meet some of the cost of the repair.

I do remember there was a thread here a while back about a Vauxhall that had thrown a cambelt soon after it was changed, due to a sheared bolt, and even Andrew-T (I think - sorry if I am pointing the finger the wrong way!) said he had had one of these let go after he had changed it - even though he was sure he had torqued it down correctly.

You won't get anything if you don't ask - strongly!!


RichardW

Is it illogical? It must be Citroen....
Peugeot 406 2.1TD - NightMare ! - Andrew-T
Sorry, Richard - your finger is pointing the wrong way. I have never had a belt fail after a change. The only event related in any way is my daughter's 205 belt which failed just after a service when it should have been changed.
Peugeot 406 2.1TD - NightMare ! - RichardW
Sorry! I thought it was wrong - hence the qualifier. Sure it was an Andrew though....


RichardW

Is it illogical? It must be Citroen....
Peugeot 406 2.1TD - NightMare ! - RichardW
Got it...

www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?v=i&t=13...5

It was an Andrew!


RichardW

Is it illogical? It must be Citroen....
Peugeot 406 2.1TD - NightMare ! - M.M
TJ,

Oh dear, I fear you will never know the truth of this. Unless these guys are saints it is likely they will overlook any hint of an error when they changed the belt. Personally I'd have alarm bells ringing with this following 7K after the previous work.

I've not heard this as a specific problem with the 2.1, others may pop up who have though. The mounting arrangement of the tensioner is quite normal. Actually it sits on a stud with a nut and I guess the stud sheared??

But I'll give you a clue. The correct torque for these fixings is very low, I do not have the exact figure to hand for your engine but usually in the range 15-25lbf ft.

It is easily possible to exceed this with a good ring spanner and if a 1/2" drive socket is used a good hand tighten could double the correct figure.

I have known someone who over used his strength and felt slip as the stud stretched, he had to take it all off again and replace the stud. Now if he'd just left it, knowingly or unknowingly, your incident could well have been the result.

Because this fixing is so crucial I have a special torque wrench that copes with low torque figures, the "standard" one usually doesn't go down low enough.

To be realistic all you could do now is explore a conversation with the garage that this stud would normally last the life of the engine, do they use a torque wrench, do they have one specially to cover that range...and would they be gentlemen and offset part of the cost?

M.M

Peugeot 406 2.1TD - NightMare ! - pmh
Why not ask the garage for the Nut and if possible the sheared stud (part still in the nut?). Do it from the point of being the interested non techy owner who just wants to see what failed and can cost so much money. Once you have the the stud in hand take it away and get a good mech engineer to look at it. It should be evident if the stud has necked thro over tightening and then you will need to get a metallurgists report if the garage are not willing to cooperate and meet some of the cost. Then assuming a conclusive report you have to start paying real money to lawyers or poss threaten a small claims court. There is somebody on this site (I do not remember who), who has a a metallurgy back ground and can probably give further advice.

Best of luck.

PS I am assuming that this the first time a Belt has been changed, otherwise I dont think that you will have much hope of winning.



pmh (was peter)
Peugeot 406 2.1TD - NightMare ! - Robin the Technician
I would suggest that if the sheared bolt is available or even the piece broken in the block, you have it examined by a metallurgist. They can establish if the bolt has failed due to a manufacturing fault or whether it was over- torqued. If its the latter, then the onus is on the garage to put it right FOC. If the failure is sue to a manufacturing fault, then you may be able to get compensation from Peugeot. I suspect that the bolt has probably been over stressed and eventually snapped. IMO the cost of the test is worth it- it could save you a very hefty repair bill if as I suspect this is most likely a garage fault.

Hope this helps


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These are the views of Robin the Technician with 35 years in the trade. I fix, therefore I am...
Peugeot 406 2.1TD - NightMare ! - Technojunkie
Thankyou for all the comments. I have spoken to the garage on the basis that there previous work replacing the cam belt could have been the cause of this nut shearing and, of course, there response was that if it had been anything to do with them they would have "put their hands up and admitted it"!

They have stated that the nut in question was not touched during the cam belt change as it is a retaining nut and not a tensioner lock-nut. They are also saying that, in their opinion, the nut is much too short for the job that it is doing (apparently the stud is only about half an inch in depth)and that they have phoned Peugeot directly to enquire if they have had any similar failures to this one.

Additionally, so they say, they have spoken to another garage (not a Peugeot dealer) that has had exactly the same problem with another 2.1TD engine.

Obviously, in this situation, I have no way of proving or dis-proving what the garage has said.

They have promised to show me the nut and I will take it away and see if I can have it tested. However, if the test proves that it has been over-torqued, the garage will of course deny it and things would get very messy and expensive !

Peugeot 406 2.1TD - NightMare ! - Reggie
Have you thought about sourcing a second hand cylinder head to cut down on costs?
There are obvious potential pitfalls doing this, but a possible cost saving.
If you do an internet search for Peugeot spares or similar, you should turn a few up.
"Peugeot Parts" at Brotherton in W. Yorks is a possibility. I know the proprieter on a customer basis, and he is very helpful, and also sells OE at significantly reduced prices when compared to Peugeot main dealers.This engine was also used on Citroens.
Bad luck with the Peugeot. My 2.1td is (touchwood) going well after one belt change.
Reggie
Peugeot 406 2.1TD - NightMare ! - DL
Never experienced a 2.1 12V belt failure - it HAS to be bad workmanship.

They are very reliable belt setups.
Peugeot 406 2.1TD - NightMare ! - Technojunkie
I've been quoted £ 700.- + VAT for a re-conditioned complete cylinder head assembly by Peugeot Diesel in North Yorkshire. If I had gone to a Peugeot dealer to have the cam belt changed instead of trying to save a few hundred quid at my local garage I would probably not be in this mess !? I shouldn't keep dwelling on this but it really does wind me up.
Peugeot 406 2.1TD - NightMare ! - M.M
TJ,

I would be quoting about £650 plus VAT for a top notch head (exchange price) so your figure is about right.

To be honest I don't think you would find any difference between a main dealer and an indpendent in trying to resolve this....or in their ability not to cause it in the first place.

You need a very honest mechanic to stand up and say yes I did cause £1000 of damage to your engine.

M.M
Peugeot 406 2.1TD - NightMare ! - DL
But would the Dealer fit an exchange head?
Peugeot 406 2.1TD - NightMare ! - Robin the Technician
Glad to hear the garage is going to supply you with the offending nut. I would suggest you enquire with your nearest Peugeot dealer to establish a.) have they had any problems with this nut on any other vehicles. b.) ask if Peugeot have issued any technical repair bulletins and c.) ask if they would remove this nut during a cambelt change. It could be that the repairing garage might be trying to wriggle out of their responsibilities
by denying immediate liability. It never hurts to ask.

Best of luck!!!


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These are the views of Robin the Technician with 35 years in the trade. I fix, therefore I am...
Peugeot 406 2.1TD - NightMare ! - ratbag
exact same problem on my 406 2.1td 2yrs ago.fitted new belt myself.still have the failed bolt a momento.car snapped 9 rockers which i replaced without removing the head[cam box separates].peugeot quoted 28.00+vat ea...got them for 11.00ea at local engine factors.offending bolt 10MM snapped off clean.i replaced it with astud and nut,still 10MM but i'm more confident with it.
Peugeot 406 2.1TD - NightMare ! - vmturbo

Pity this all happened so long ago as I'm toying with the idea of scrapping my Peugeot 406 2.1TD.

What has annoyed me this time is that the cooling fans have packed-up. I'm 99% sure that the fault is worn out carbon brushes as giving the fans a twirl or a whack will get them going again (only limping though)

On most cars one would unscrew a couple of bolts and lift up the fan assembly as on a normal car the bottom of the fan assembly is dowelled into rubber grommets. On this car one has to remove the bumper and the front of the car! I'm absolutely seething over this poor design as in all my days I've never come across such a disaster. To be perfectly honest you couldn't make it up.

I do not intend to have any more Peugeots after this upset.

Peugeot 406 2.1TD - NightMare ! - Peter.N.

I have been running 2.1s in XMs for over 15 years and 300,000 miles with no serious engine problems except the head gasket at about 150k. The design of the valve gear means that if the belt breaks it only breaks the rockers and generally doesn't damage the valves which usually makes it unnecessary to remove the cylinder head to repair it. I have certainly never had your problem.

I think that the 2.1 is the best IDI engine made, they are normally bombproof and better on fuel than the 1.9, its also more refined than either the 1.9 or Hdi

Brilliant engine - pig to work on.

Having just re read your original post, they would have to slacken the tensioner nut to set the tension and also to hold it in position while refitting the belt. The nut that holds it on also locks it in position.

Edited by Peter.N. on 16/07/2013 at 23:00

Peugeot 406 2.1TD - NightMare ! - TeeCee

On this car one has to remove the bumper and the front of the car!

That's only bad design if that's a difficult job. I used to run a Zafira, on which quite a few things required removal of its plastic front end for access, but it was a five minute job to get that off and the end result was a heck of a sight easier to work on than fiddling around with restricted access.

You'd be amazed at how little is left of a modern car once that big plastic bit at the front is removed....