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What is it with PSA group and electronics? I have or family members / friends have owned numerous 106, 205, 309, 306, 405, Xantia, Saxo, ZX etc. and all are plagued by annoying electrical problems. Everything from engine managment, ABS faults, electric 'toy' problems (sunroofs, windows, mirrors etc.) headlights......the list goes on. As an Electronic Engineer I get out the (increasingly useless) Haynes manual and trawl through the circuits, eventually (well 90% of the time) finding the problem. Most owners, though, have to resort to the dealers who haven't got a clue. Why can't they sort this out?
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Lord knows, but it does seem to be a French national characteristic. Don't want to see like I'm hijacking this thread but I suspect it affects far more than PSA products.
On a personal level, I can trace it back to the late 1980s and an infuriating week driving a Renault 21 TXE. The 'E' stood for Electronique, denoting all the electrically-operated gizmos on this posh model (windows, locking, mirrors, sunroof, LED multi-function dashboard display etc).
My 'week' with the car actually lasted no more than three days during which functions were failing one by one. This trend culminated in wiper failure and, as it was winter, I left the car in the car park and told Renault fleet to come and take it away.
The big question is why it's a French national characteristic. Is it down to the suppliers they use? A penchant for over-complicated or under-resourced systems? Or plain poor build quality?
They do seem to like their electronic gizmos in French cars but why can't they boeuf them up a bit?
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Why on earth do people bother with French cars when they could have a perfectly good Japanese one? They even look universally awful like that Citroen that looks like it's going backwards even when it's standing still. The French love to flaunt their intellectual superiority but it doesn't win wars or help to make good cars.
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Morris Ox is right (as almost always)
The French have access to the same technology as everyone else but they just don't seem to know what to do with it...
If you think the car electrics can be iffy you should see the domestic stuff - talk about giving Michael Mouse a bad name!
I live in France but I gave up on the idea of buying a French car - or any car at all from a French dealer...they just don't seem to care what anything looks like or whether it goes wrong. I'm now in the long drawn out process of trying to re-register the old Honda coupe that I had to go back to England to buy - trying to persuade Honda France to provide me with written proof they were sold over here too!
Luckily, cars and electrics are about the only drawbacks to the French way of life...
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Edward,
In the IAM we advise starting the engine before putting on the seatbelt - I don't have any statistics on engine fires, but I don't want a seatbelt on if I have one.
Over the top?
Matt35.
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Does anyone know if the same cooling fan is fitted to any other PSA vehicles?
Ben
On my 3rd Citroen. Saxo, Xsara, C5.
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I understand the EU have insisted on a equal trade agreement whereby these electrical blips are designed into the French cars.
Apparently they beleive if the electrics were 100%.... with the neat designs, high equipment levels, excellent diesels and value for money....well no-one would buy anything other than French.
I never have understood the purpose behind Japanese cars anyway.
M.M
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A good response would be "stop buying the damn things then!" - tongue in cheek... :)
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Not defending French cars but the wifes Saxo has a Bosch management system fitted. Unless they make an inferior version for the French I should have thought it should be just as reliable as any other make of car fitted with this system.
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The problem is not so much with the components but with how they are screwed together. Thus a perfectly reliable reliable system can become a nightmare when fitted by a Citroen worker. I love Cx's and Xm's but I'd never buy another except as a toy. I now drive a Subaru Legacy and will stick with them in the future. They are such a brilliant driving experience and so far I've had not one fault (touch wood!). I'm sorely tempted by a Impreza WRX. Anyone any experience of them?
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This morning I'd decided to buy a new Picasso. Then I saw this thread and also spoke to the 'Drivethedeal' salesman, who seemed to prefer the Toyota in preference and all my old doubts were resurrected. I've never been totally confident about moving away from Toyota in favour of Citroen, but I honestly now think my mind's made up. The Corolla Verso diesel is a grand more than an SX Picasso diesel and I think I'm happy to pay it just for peace of mind. They might be equally good but if the Toyota means I sleep easier in my bed then so be it. I even stopped yesterday at a house with a Diesel Picasso in the driveway and accosted the owner therein. It was new in April this year and he was very pleased with it - but even he pointed out the lumbar seat adjustment knob which no longer did any adjusting (cable come adrift).....you just don't seem to hear many owners of Honda, Toyota, Mazda, Nissan, having the sort of discussions that I regularly see taking place regarding Peugeot, Citroen and Renault.
I've had a Clio diesel and a Pug 206 diesel and both were OK (ish) but neither dealer impressed me with after sales.
No - my minds made up. It's not going to be French!
I'm grateful to all who contributed to this and my original "Toyota dealer versus Broker" thread.
KB.
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