At the weekent my freind bought an ex demo civic R-Type 52 plate with 6,000 mls on and immaculate.
Yesterday on his way to work the engine siezed and the Honda dealership recovered him and have given him a courtesy car.
The garage rang him today to tell him the car appears to have run out of oil so it wouldn't be covered under the warranty and they will ring him tommorrow with an estimate for repairs.
He has explained to them that he only picked the car up on monday and was told the car had had a thorough check. They told him it is his responsibility to check oil levels etc. and are bieng quite negative with him.
Needless to say he has contacted a solicitor but what else should he do so he won't get stitched up.
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I'd probably reject the car and demand a full refund immediately. He should also contact his local trading standards as they will be able to give him chapter and verse. As he has only just bought the car he is protected by new EU regs which basically say anything that goes wrong in the first 6 months is the dealer's problem and they should fix it. I think he is in a very strong position. If he had owned the car for weeks then not checking the oil would have been more of a problem but any half decent garage would check the oil level on all the cars they send out.
I wouldn't want to own a performance car that has been mistreated. Even if they offered to fix the car foc (unless it meant a brand new engine) I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole. Walking away with the cash in his pocket and finding another civic type R is the best thing he can do.
teabelly
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That's erm.... fascinating.
Frankly, their argument is so hilariously wrong that I don't know where to begin. It is a known problem with this engine that they can use oil, and I'm guessing that the monkeys at the garage (no other word for it) have used their policies and lack of discretion. If he had had the car for six months without ever checking the oil level, I would have some sympathy for the garage's argument, although even then I'm a bit dubious about the legal position.
Firstly, he MUST refuse to pay and speak to a manager who has a. some discretion in the matter and b. at least one functioning brain cell. So far the people he has spoken to appear to have neither. It may be worth his while to reject the car although there have been some amazingly short times between collecting up the car and realising it was a lemon that have been held to be irrevocable acceptance, so it looks like the original sale contract stays in force.
However, he still has remedies under that contract. There is no way that a car sold with no oil in it, or which has used all its oil within 48 hours, can possibly be described as of satisfactory quality and even fit for purpose would be pushing it. That's quite apart from the new Consumer Contracts regulations that came into force at the end of March which put the onus on the dealer to show that any fault that has occurred wasn't present at the time of purchase - and I can't see how they can possibly do that in this case.
If he gets no joy from the dealership, he should speak to Honda customer services, who should be amazed that they have given jobs to such shady idiots. If they turn out to be shady idiots themselves, the solicitor's letter and legal action are a useful next step, but I can't see it getting that far before someone wakes up...
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I've probably been too gentle above. Speak to Trading Standards, they know about rejecting cars in practice. If he can push for rejecting the car and getting another one (and I wouldn't be surprised if he has a sour taste with Honda and gets something entirely different) that is a much better option.
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OR, from another point of view....
He wouldn't have been out having a bit of fun in his new hot hatch, grounded the car at speed and holed the sump?
Not too difficult to do. I know - I've done it.
Car runs fine for a day before all the oil pours out and hey presto seized engine!
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He's a fairly gentle driver so I don't think he would have damaged it but since I posted this he has also been onto trading standards and is popping down there to pick up a load of info. They seemed to know the name of the garage even before he told them so it sounds like they may be well known to them.
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Assuming the service manager won't see reason, go straight to Honda customer services. Trading Standards should be reserved as a useful threat unless needed. My recent experience with Honda UK was a very good one in terms of resolving a warranty issue grey area.
This, however, is no grey area. The "periodic maintenance checks are the responsibility of the owner" line is totally irrelevant in this case. A car of this age and mileage, bought as an Approved Used through the dealer network, should be meticulously prepared in every respect, and for this to happen within hours of collection is nothing less than scandalous negligence on the part of the garage.
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Just spoke to my freind and he said Trading Standards know all about this dealership and that they haven't a leg to stand on.
He has asked me if I would escort him to the dealership later this afternoon to sort it out, he's a bit sheepish and won't get involved in a confrontation but I love a good old argument so it should be fun. He's going to show me all the literature he's got and I'll let you know tonight how we get on.
Thanks for all the advice.
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I'm back from the dealership and they are a bunch of arrogant, nasty, useless monkeys.
The manager wanted to know why my freind had bought along someone with him and when he explained that I know all about law ( a blatant lie ) he refused to talk to us. I then proceeded to discuss various issues with a couple of their customers and was threatened with the police.
Eventually the manager spoke to us and said the problem was definately caused by a lack of oil and as this should have been checked by my freind it is not covered by warranty at all. I informed him that if the car had lost all that oil in 3 days there must have been something very wrong with the car in the first place. He laughed and said once the car is driven off the forcourt any fluid checks are down to the customer.
The end result of our meeting was that the garage have informed their solicitors to deal with the issue and are washing their hands of it unless my freind is willing to pay the cost of repairs.
Trading standards are willing to help with the legal stuff and think the garage are bieng very foolish to say the least and they also said the garage do not have a leg to stand on.
My freind is now organising for the car to be collected and be reveiwed by an independant recommended by trading standards.
The worst bit about this is that my freind actually contemplated paying for the repairs. I wonder how many people in this situation actually would pay for the repairs.
Will keep you all informed of the outcome.
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"..once the car is driven off the forcourt any fluid checks are down to the customer"
So howcome they haven't got any evidence of having checked them themselves?
I hope you get your money back!
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Contact your local newspaper(s) newsdesk(s) and tell them the story - stick to the facts (polite, firm, true, assertive). Tell the dealer and Honda UK that you are doing this.
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Name and shame the dealership - here!
I can't believe any Honda dealer would behave in such a shabby fashion. Honda are renouned for reliability and dealership courtesy and service. Get onto Honda UK direct, they will be very quick in following this up.
Once again - which dealership?
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>>Name and shame the dealership - here!
Sorry, no you can't.
M.
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I will not name the dealership at this point other than to say they are west of London. My freind has spoken with Honda UK and they have been very helpfull so today we should have a result.
Am I allowed to name the dealership or will I get into trouble with this site or Honda UK.
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If you name the dealership at this point I will delete it. If you make it so that the dealership is readily identifiable, then I will delete it.
When it is resolved I am happy to help you write something which will get your point across and identify the dealership without offending anything.
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Marcos,
Unbelievable attitude from a main dealer!
I'm very interested in this because I'm considering a Civic not Type R :-( from the Honda Approved Used Car scheme and I live approx 30 miles west of London and would obviously like to avoid this nightmare scenario!
Just a quick trip to the Honda Uk website:
"That is why every Honda Approved Used Car, whatever the make, undergoes a comprehensive inspection and repair process, copies of which are retained for inspection.
Additionally, we check the car's history to independently verify the mileage and ensure there is no outstanding finance, as well as checking the Condition Alert Register, Police National Register and the DVLA.
For extra peace of mind we include a 12 months Hondacare Comprehensive Warranty and a 30 day exchange plan
Take the risk and hassle out of buying a used car by choosing a Honda Approved Used Vehicle."
Maybe go back and ask for a copy of the vehicle inspection and ask them to explain how the 30 day vehicle exchange plan works?
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What a result
Honda U.K got involved and have offered my friend a brand new pre registered Civic R-Type as a replacemnet.
They apparantly will not discuss the dealer with my friend and he has been in touch with another dealer who Honda have asked him to deal with.
It sounds like Honda are rather annoyed with the offending dealer and have virtually taken the matter out of their hands.
He is going to see the new dealer tommorrow who are actually closer to where he lives, his new car will be in black with air-con. The other one was in red and without air-con (can\'t believe it isn\'t standard) so I think he\'s got a good deal as they look great in black.
I will let you know how it all goes but at least he is now a happy boy and he gets to keep the courtesy car until the new car is sorted.
Well done Honda U.K. and thanks to everyone for their help.
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Seriously good result I reckon ! I'd say the drinks are on your mate Marcos ;-)
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Very pleased to hear. No doubt Honda UK (unlike the dealer) could see a PR disaster looming and have at least retained a customer and retrieved a few lost sales - here if nowhere else!
Now who did you say the dealer was...?
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Well done Marcos. First Merc and now Honda! You are getting to be an expert at getting good service out of seemingly reluctant dealers.
As I have consistently urged backroomers, if you do not get the service you want: persist until you get the service you deserve.
It should not have to be the case, but unfortunately people will get only just what they "ask for" or be fobbed if they "fail to ask". Always be firm, be assertive, be polite, and above all know what you deserve, and make sure you get it. Seek help and support if needed, but don't just walk away and whinge. And if you come across a rogue, deal with them so that others who follow may not suffer at their hands.
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That's fantastic news, Marcos! Absolutely incredible, in fact. Your friend is sure to be very happy with his Type R and he has struck the deal of a lifetime with a great car company. If more car manufacturers operated this way (Renault certainly included!) then the British public would appreciate and trust them so much more. And where there's trust, there's money.
Honda state that air-con is an option on the Type R as it is a luxury that slows the car down. In fairness, this can't be by more than 4 or 5 bhp and when you've got 197 to spare... I don't think it really fits in with the 'Type R' racing image, that started with the Integra Type R. Now if you want to see basic - try one of those. Very little sound-proofing, thinner windows and a really raw drive. Lovely! The Civic is slightly more refined than that - but not much. Hence the lack of a/c and other niceities.
I can't help but wonder if the poster was right about hitting the sump on a speedbump or something. Honda claim they have NEVER had a VTEC engine failure in 11 years of manufacture. I know several owners and cars and these engines are virtually bulletproof if maintained correctly. The big thing to watch for is oil usage. Some use loads when bedding in, others almost none. It varies from engine to engine. I have heard of one owner putting in 3 litres in the first 2k miles! I have put in about 2/3 of a litre in this distance and it seems to have stopped using in the last 500 miles. Tell your mate to check the oil almost as often as he fills up for the first few months.
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If theres one thing he will now do religiously it will be to check the oil.
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Just a quick note to let you know my mate picked up his new Civic R-Type at the weekend and is well chuffed.
Not only has he got a new car cheaper but they have given him loads of little goodies with the car.
For those of you that wanted me to name the dealer that was originally involved, I wont, but keep an eye out for a dealer to the west of London that wont be dealing in Honda's soon.
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Good news and well done, Marcos. There are a few manufacturers who could learn a lot about customer relations and goodwill from Companies like Honda and, in my experience, Toyota. How many readers of this thread will pass on by word of mouth, over a long time, a positive comment about Honda. This is how reputations, good and bad, are made.
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