After more than 20 years doing as much DIY as possible on my cars, I think it might be time to call it a day.......!
A few weeks ago, the cambelt failed on SWMBO's 1.8 20V Passat, resulting in 20 quite attractively-shaped bent valves. No fear - out with the spanners and get stuck in! Fortunately, we have a 'spare' car, so I was able to take my time a do a 'proper job'. I also took the opportunity of replacing the disintegrated aircon compressor pulley bearing while access was good!
Got it all back together - engine started first time and ran sweet as the proverbial nut. Job done - congratulate self on saving garage labour costs - buy bottle of Pomerol as reward. Oblivious to one bolt securing a small plastic section of belt cover not being tightened..........
Off on holiday to Norfolk en famille, said bolt finally vibrates its way out and drops onto cambelt. Exits through belt and timing cover - pistons once more have an intimate moment with valves. Buy two bottles of Pomerol and head for oblivion....
Still, I'm now well versed in whipping the head off a Passat, though I think this may well be the last time I bother. Family commitments and a less-supple back have finally won over any desire to do that 'proper job' (!) and save a bit of cash.
Well, until my son starts having problems with his first car in another 10 years time.......!!
Just wondering how many other backroomers are still active DIYers.
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What a bummer !!!!
Just out of interest LHM how much did the job cost you and what would the VAG dealer have charged for same ?
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ps - although I'm a keen DIY'er at home, it's tales like yours which have disuaded from doing anything with my car other than filling it up with petrol and cleaning it (very occasionally). Paranoia I know but .....
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Hi Volvoman!
Total cost £322 (first time round!). Spoke to an independent VW/Audi specialist beforehand who said a similar instance on an A4 ran to £1700. Guess that must have included a brand new head, though the machine shop that replaced the valves for me said the head and valve seats usually survive the ordeal.
Let's hope nothing happens on the S80.........!!!
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Getting started with car DIY.....
Despite less than dexterous fingers, I\'m getting to grips with a Weber carb for the first time and pink fluffy dice fiddly it is.
I\'m not in the same league as whipping off a 20V cylinder head but there is a perverse pleasure is oily hands, messing with petroleum jelly and swarfega and little parts of cars that only five year olds can pick up.
I nearly had a fit at the labour charge on reconditioning the carb.
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If you've the time and skills, I'd stick with DIY. Paying a dealer large wads of cash doesn't ensure a good job. A 'skilled technician' could just as easily have made the same mistake as you, not to mention the work experience lad doing your servicing. The main advantage of DIY is that you have more of an interest in doing the job properly and not cutting corners just to save a few quid. Alternatively, try to find the almost mythical small independant who really cares. They do exist, it's just knowing who's good and who's not!
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Having seen the cost and damage some 'professionals' cause I'll be sticking to the spanners. I think there's a certain pride to be had in looking after your own car. However that said I paid a dealer to do the cambelt on the last car, special tools needed, etc. My current ride will be into the dealers for routine servicing (I want to keep to keep the book stamped) but all the other jobs, I'll do myself. Scrapyard for the parts if possible, even the bulbs!
Steve.
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The Astra cylinder head is being done by my Brother-in-law as I type. It's the kind of thing I'd have a crack at myself having done several bikes in the past, but the risk of spouse insanity if I:
a) take longer than a week to get it done (depriving her of her car to take kids out and about while I take it into work)
b) spend hours in the garage at the weekend so she doesn't get a break (trying to keep a two year old Bob the Builder away from "helping" whilst I was fitting the kitchen was somewhat stressful)
c) spend lots of notes (which we haven't got) on the extra tools needed (Even Guy had to buy a few and his collection is more comprehensive than mine)[Toolbox envy ;-)]
mean it's gone elsewhere. I objected strongly to a garage doing work I hadn't authorised on a previous occasion (a different story) - especially things like fitting new pads and discs which I'm perfectly capable of, but accept that time is a precious commodity and it might be worth paying someone to change the oil whilst you play with your kids in the nearby park.
My dad stopped spannering a few years ago in his 60's as the inevitable nicks you get were taking longer to heal, and the concrete garage floor started getting colder and harder.
Chris TD
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Interesting discussion. It was bad luck on the passat, but I've been discouraged before by an inability to cure some weird engine noises (perhaps not in the same league). Didn't stop me changing a head gasket last year, that would have otherwise economically scrapped a good car.
Put it down to experience, cos the next expensive job will get the tools out again!.
I am more put off these days by the systems side of things that make accurate diagnosis difficult without the lap top and software. Suppose I should get the garage to diagnose then DIY if I didn't like the qoute.
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Last week I spent hour after hour trying to sort the brakes on my brothers van. Initially it started as corroded rear brake pipes (MOT failure), this was quoted at £80+VAT. The decision was made to buy a flairing (?) kit, some tubing and unions (total cost £40 and we still have enough tubing and unions to fix another 3 vans!). However by the time the brakes were back up to scatch the parts changed included caliper mounting plate & slide pins, rear cylinders & shoes and a master cylinder service kit. How much would this have cost? I think just looking carefully at what a job involves is a good guide as to whether it's the dealers/specialist or DIY. Personally I won't touch a local garage.
Steve.
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I used to spanner. Had been well trained by my father. Many happy hour spent lapping in valve seats during the usual "de coke" routine that seemed to happen on every car of his. Remember my mother being very upset as he heated up the ring gear from his Austin 7 in the oven before fitting onto the flywheel. We had that engine in the hall for weeks!
Anyway gave it up after minor mishap with Nicolle's Fiesta. Sheared off the hex body part of a spark plug in the head during a routine service. Car towed to local garage where they drilled the old plug out. Nicolle was not happy - forbidden to touch car again.
Must say that local garages that specialise in a certain range of cars seem to be quite good.
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Did my knees in renewing disc pads a couple of years ago - did funny walk for about a week afterwards.
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i'm a relatively new convert to the world of spanners, and i can't emphasis how much i love it - even when it does get frustrating. I took my Passat TDI for a pre MOT and found out exactly what needed doing. The handbreak, back calipers/pads, front lights (positioning), back break fluid pipes and finally a fuel tube from the injector to the pump, all changed by myself for the cost of a Haynes manual, a socket set and axel stands. Can't imagine what this little list would have cost at a local dealer or even garage, but probably more than my tool investment did.
The only thing i lack is a good work space, i currently us the road side or a disused car park on sundays (as I live in Europe which is still free from Sunday trading on the whole). A workshop is my dream, but then so is a house larger then two rooms!!! Overall the sense of satisfaction is really great, especially when things run smoothly. But even when it gets tricky and you lose that pesky rusty nut, a good dose of anger can really clear the head. I enjoy ranting at my break calipers becasue they don't answer back nor get offended.
Just how much of a jump up is it to begin tinkering with the engine itself???
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Anyway gave it up after minor mishap with Nicolle's Fiesta. Sheared off the hex body part of a spark plug in the head during a routine service.
Renault Family,
Had the same thing happen to me, called in a mate who worked on the spanners for Ford - 5 minutes later of frenzied drilling and all was well. According to him this happens ALL THE TIME with the Fiesta and even some of the new Ka's.
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Having given up the spanners seven years ago due to a company smoke, and now dusting off the old tool box because of giving back the car - I had forgotten just how enjoyable and rewarding it is to maintain your own vehicle.
Having worked around the motor industry for 7 years or so & quite regularly having to 'intervene' when things did go pear shaped with a customers car - I came to one conclusion; that yes in 1 out of every 100 comebacks the clot who had made the mistake should never have been allowed in a workshop but in the 99 other cases there was no hint of incompetence or poor standards just a moments lack of concentration.
Don't be so hard on yourself, it happens to the best of them, keep going as long as it gives you pleasure.
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I started with decoking my first car - a 1929 Riley 9 bought for £30 in 1966. As a student and when not with a company car did all my own repairs. Still do.. changed son\'s front pads on his Peugeot 106.. B.. awful design as retaining pins rust and cannot be driven out easily.
To help my elderly knees I use a garden kneeler: made of foam about 1.5cm thick - 10 years old costing about £3.50 I think. Great: prevents any problems.
I also use protective goggles and Atrixo Intensive Protective Cream (any chemist): prevents oily dirt clinging and prevents dermatitis: vital when older skin does not heal as it used to:-(
Still repair wife\'s Peugeot 106 aged 9 years: almost perfect bodily and mechanically A1.
Would I buy a second hand Mercedes S class and try to maintain it myself ( see another thread on maintaing one cheaply) or any car with a reputation for electrical or mechanical unreliability? (Fiat and Rover to name but 2) NO!
Would I buy second hand a car with lots and lots of complex electricals which has not be maintained 100%? NO.
I intend to continue with my own maintenance but of course the Peugoet is now worth £1250 at best so any repair costing over £500 would be carefully looked at....
Most suspension/brakes/ hose work is simple. Aircon etc is a job for specialists.
madf
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Have always spannered my own cars. Nowdays happy to do service items like oil changes, brakes, exhausts but I've never changed a cambelt; always got someone more dextrous to do it.
Most complex job; changing the clutch on a semi-automatic Citroen DS. All the hydraulics went back without a leak.
Most baffling job; did a service on wife-to-be's Triumph Toledo and couldn't start it. The fibre insulator on the points had been manufactured with some metal swarf embedded in it and there was a dead short across the points. Took me ages to fathom.
Most stupid error; Dosed my Fiat 128 Rallye with Redex and, while spinning the engine on the starter to clear the Redex out, got a rag wound round the distributor innards. Completely destroyed the balance weights and I never found the springs.
Most embarrasing job; borrowed a mate's garage which had a pit so I could do the back brakes on a Renault 16. Drove over the edge of the pit and had to hold the car on the footbrake (handbrake useless) tooting the horn until mate came and put the wooden pit cover back .
Job I wished I could have solved, but didn't; Coming home late at night with heavily pregnant wife in a Fiat Strada. Engine died but all other electrics worked. The RAC man correctly diagnosed a broken engine-to-body earth strap. I could have had us on our way using a jump lead, but I couldn't work it out.
That's quite enough ...
H (Darcy rebranded).
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Thanks for all your replies, which just *may* have persuaded me to stay with the spannering! I was nearly too embarrassed to go back to the machine shop which replaced the valves, but their attitude also was: "we've all been there before (mate!)". Seems like I may have been luckier this time, as only the eight exhaust valves had been bent.
Hopefully, I'm in for another 'dirty weekend' on Saturday - just a pity it doesn't include SWMBO!!!
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I've done most jobs on all my cars, as well as those of family members over the years, but haven't done much to the C5. For one thing, it's got the 3 year warranty so dealer servicing through that period is a must, but of course I don't want to touch anything without a workshop manual - and Mr Haynes hasn't got round to the C5 yet. (Looking forward to the outcome if he does!)
The most fun, though was on my sister's old Riley Elf. First major job was to renew the back subframe and hydrolastic pipes (yes, they were hydrolastic!)
The old subframe came off with a bit of controlled brutality, then we supported the car and went off to the dealers for hydrolastic pipe. Now, this pipe doesn't come off a roll, instead, it is pre-formed and amounts to about 10 feet of rigid pipework - not unlike a one-piece exhaust.
That wouldn't have been a difficulty if the pipe hadn't been assembled in the factory before the front subframe - so the pipe is actually trapped between subframe and body.
We thought we could drop the front subframe complete with engine, transmission etc and ease the new pipe in between. Well, yes - but to poke it up through the gap the (rigid) back end had to be angled down - hitting the floor (car was on axle stands) It couldn't be bent for fear of snapping. What a hassle!
Got there eventually, and car ran for a year or so.Then the nut securing one of the selectors in the gearbox dropped off, leaving no gears and I had to strip the box just to screw it back on again!
My sister eventually wrote off the car, but persuaded me to rebuild the whole front end - new subframe, wings, front panel etc. That's when I (nearly) learned how to weld....
Happy days!
Graeme
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