Vauxhall Insignia Sports Tourer - Is this MPG-based scheme unfair? Help please! - Marymoo

I'm sorry this is rather long, please do read it though, as I'd really appreciate your comments. My husband has a company car in his job with a large private company. He is about to move on to a better job as his current employer's terms and conditions are awful. When he leaves, we think a problem is going to arise and I would appreciate your opinions as I am trying to help him to do something to prevent it occurring.

He enjoys his company car but finds that he averages over 20mpg less than the manufacturer's published combined mpg figure, which is 76.3mpg (from the Vauxhall website for the particular model) despite being very good at maximising this through skilled driving and awareness. The terrain he covers for work is such that it is hard to maximise these figures. (Long distances on country roads and lanes, through towns and villages, many hills, stop-start and crawling necessary.)

His employer's method of calculating how much he should pay for private mileage is one that I have never encountered before, and I can't find anything on the internet although I am usually a fairly expert "Googler". I'm beginning to think they might be unique....

The car is fuelled with a company credit card or from the company diesel pump, and his private mileage repayment is calculated by working out how much of that fuel was spent on business miles. They do this by calculating how much fuel would have been used if the car achieved the manufacturer's mpg rate, and anything on top of that is deemed to be private mileage, for which the employee is charged. Of course, some of these "private" miles are actually business. He is not required to submit actual mileage amounts for business or private use, as they are not used in the calculation.

This system would work if all vehicles achieved this figure without fail. However, when a car is only able to average around 53mpg, the employee ends up subsidising the business mileage themselves - to a fairly large degree if this mileage is high.

Other colleagues have experienced this problem too, but the amount to which they are affected varies with the terrain they cover. Several have complained to the employer, who has begrudgingly reduced the target figure by 10%. Requests to lower it further have been met with the delightful "if they don't like it they can get another job" response. My husband's mpg is around 69% of the manaufacturer's figure, so this 10% reduction does not resolve the issue.

I am aware that manufacturer's figures are often hard to meet. The company sent a manager out on a short "test" trip in the local area and he managed a figure somewhere around 10% less than the published mpg, so that is their justification for reducing it by this amount.

My husband pays a set amount monthly out of his meagre salary towards his private mileage, and also pays for his own fuel if we need to use the car for a long trip such as a holiday, so that there isn't too much "private mileage" fuel on the company credit card.

So....here's the problem. He is about to give in his notice, and is aware that there is quite a deficit on his private mileage debt with the company. This has been increasing since he got the car as he was aware of this calculation problem and refused permission for the company to take any more off him until a resolution could be reached....but when he leaves, they can just deduct the whole amount out of his salary.

So...has anyone heard of a company calculating business mileage in this way? If so, is it a recognised, legal method? What do you think we should do? My first thought was that he should submit an official grievance at the same time as giving notice, although I doubt it will resolve the problem.

Thanks for reading this....I look forward to your answers.

Vauxhall Insignia Sports Tourer - Is this MPG-based scheme unfair? Help please! - RobJP

Sorry to say, but if those are the rules the employer uses, and he knew those rules in advance, then he's probably deemed to have accepted those rules.

He could, obviously, submit a grievance, and, if refused, go to ACAS, or threaten to do so. As far as I recall, the employer has to pay the full cost of the ACAS hearing in full, and the sum is not recoverable back from the employee.

The alternative, of course, is that he walks in 1 day after payday, drops everything on his bosses desk, and walks out, having given no notice period at all. But that obviously relies on him having another post lined up, and not needing a reference of any sort.

Vauxhall Insignia Sports Tourer - Is this MPG-based scheme unfair? Help please! - Marymoo

Hello

Thanks for replying.

He wasn't told how his private mileage would be calculated when he signed his contract, although there was a clause saying that he would reimburse the company for private miles (which is fine) and in fact, before his car was replaced, didn't have too much of a problem as it was a different car and lower figures.

He has got another job and doesn't need a reference (they don't give employee references anyway!) but feels that people still working there would be put at a disadvantage if he left suddenly and doesn't want to do this. Also, they have a contract clause (which I personally believe to be unenforceable) stating that he will be "fined" a month's salary for each month of notice he doesn't work. Not sure how they would actually atempt to do this though...

Vauxhall Insignia Sports Tourer - Is this MPG-based scheme unfair? Help please! - gordonbennet

If there's nothing in writing that he's agreed to re this ridulous private mileage scam, then i would say going down Rob's ACAS route to be as good as any...with the added bonus it might just get the situation brought back into the real world for his soon to be ex colleagues.

Congratulations to the both of you for there being some light at the end of this tunnel, sound a horrid place to work and you can soon put it behind you.

I know not all will agree, but there is still a place for working people to be in a union or other work related association with some teeth, this company car farce would never have got off the ground if there had been some collective agreement in force...my work is manual (so different to white collar) and i've been in the union most of my working life, in every single case the contracts that were agreed with union stewards or their equivalent have been far better in all respects than those workplaces with no agreements where it can be a dictatorial situation.

Edited by gordonbennet on 07/02/2016 at 11:42

Vauxhall Insignia Sports Tourer - Is this MPG-based scheme unfair? Help please! - Marymoo

Thanks, gordonbennet....former employees have taken the company to tribunal for various clauses in their contract and have won, so there is a bit of history relating to practices that are deemed to be unfair, etc - you never know, if we fight back it might well help other employees.

They don't recognise Unions (I think they are usually a good idea...) which worried me when he started there, because I had a feeling there might be trouble. :(

Thanks for your reply.

Vauxhall Insignia Sports Tourer - Is this MPG-based scheme unfair? Help please! - Engineer Andy

Sounds like one of my old companies, that didn't give the car mileage rates to me until after I joined (I should've asked but didn't realise they were so stingy), making it uneconomic to use my car for in-work purposes after half the year. To be honest, I couldn't be bothered to take them to ACAS as I was more interested in not having an industry black mark (Construction) against my name as a 'trouble-maker' and just removing the stress of working/dealing with that firm, so I thought it better to draw a line under the whole thing and move on.

I suppose in your case you had a good bit of £££ to lose (which you may find it difficult to pay), whereas mine was more about keeping my reputation. Personally speaking, if you can afford to lose a few hundred quid for keeping your husband's industry reputation intact, then it may be the wiser decision than to take the case to ACAS, win and lose standing amongst other/potential employers. Unfortunately a sign of the world we live in that we sometimes have to accept this.

I would, of course, make sure your husband lets as many of his industry friends know about this situation, so that his soon-to-be former firm is penalised by having recruitment/retention problems as a result of their poor HR policies/management. They'll either change them (helping everyone, thanks to him) or eventually go under (all their own fault). That's what happened with my former employer - they almost went bankrupt and had to sell out (mainly for their client list) to another firm for a pittance, the former owners now only junior directors with little clout in the parent company's firm and likely several £100k poorer.

BTW - all firms HAVE to recognise unions (not that I'm a fan), but many often frown upon staff joining and can have a significant impact on job security and promotions (ironically) if most other employees are not members - it (in the employer's eyes) implies the employee thinks they aren't a good employer and singles them out as a potential trouble-maker. Sad really - but a good employer doesn't need employees to be union members, bad ones do but often causes the employee-employer relationship to worsen, as is often seen at some larger or former public firms.

Vauxhall Insignia Sports Tourer - Is this MPG-based scheme unfair? Help please! - craig-pd130

What a bunch of chiselling skinflints the current employer sounds like.

I've never heard of such a draconian regime for calculating private mileage.

Here's my suggested solution: your hubby will know the overall mileage he has done in the car, and how much of those were on business, and how much on private use.

If the car has only ever been fuelled from the company's pump, he will presumably have some record of exactly how much fuel has been put into it in the time he has been driving it.

This will give an overall figure for mpg while the car has been in his ownership.

So he can calculate exactly the cost of the fuel for 'private' miles. This is the baseline from which to negotiate.

If, as you say, the company does not give references anyway (and most employers' references are meaningless now, as they can only legally confirm the dates during which a person was employed), then he should haggle, basing his figures on the real figures he has.

Vauxhall Insignia Sports Tourer - Is this MPG-based scheme unfair? Help please! - Marymoo

Thanks, craig....I love the "chiselling skinflints"!

He keeps good records of everything, so we have info we can use, but they are quite hard nuts to crack unfortunately. :/

Vauxhall Insignia Sports Tourer - Is this MPG-based scheme unfair? Help please! - craig-pd130

On the other hand, some rough calculations show the following.

The employer has grudgingly allowed a 10% reduction on the official Vauxhall consumption figure.

So this means the Insignia "should" average 68.5mpg. You say your hubby's averaging 53mpg.

10,000 private miles at 53mpg average is 857.5 litres used = £900, assuming the fuel cost is about £1.05 per litre.

10,000 private miles at the supposed 68.5mpg is 663.5 litres used = £697, again assuming the fuel cost is £1.05 per litre.

So you 'owe' £203 for those 10,000 private miles. Unless you've done a collossal amount of private miles, I'm not sure it's worth arguing.

My 10 pence worth is your husband should leave on the best terms possible, to make sure he gets all his salary etc that's due to him, and simply chalk this up to experience.

Oh, and if he's offered a company car in a future job, find out exactly what's involved in the scheme ...

Vauxhall Insignia Sports Tourer - Is this MPG-based scheme unfair? Help please! - Marymoo

Thanks Craig

Unfortunately they work it out the other way round, if you see what I mean....they deduct what they think he should have spent on business miles, without actually recording the amount he has done (av. 2000 a month at the moment, work miles) and the rest they count as private, even though some won't be.

He has been paying a largish amount monthly for the 500-1000 a month private miles he does, but thinks there is about £400 backlog building up since the company vehicle was changed to this model. If the company takes this out of his last salary, he won't have enough money to travel to his new job (which doesn't have a car, but has a considerably larger salary) so we will have to borrow money to enable him to get there.

He is very much inclined to put it down to experience, but there were so many unfair/illegal practices going on that I feel we should fight back. Think it at least worth one more try.

Vauxhall Insignia Sports Tourer - Is this MPG-based scheme unfair? Help please! - Marymoo

Sorry, meant to add....if he had actually done 500 private miles, he might end up being charged for 800, where in fact the 300 were really business miles. Over time, this adds up to him paying for quite a few miles that the company should be paying for.

Vauxhall Insignia Sports Tourer - Is this MPG-based scheme unfair? Help please! - Happy Blue!

Even as an employer I think this is a terrible scheme. However your husband is in a hard place and should simply go on the best terms possible unless he really relishes an argument.

In my firm employees pay for all their fuel and we give them the maximum HMRC permitted allowance back (45ppm) for business miles. I'm not overly strict on checking the distance they are meant to have travelled as we all know that traffic jams etc require you to make detours and some trips are quicker but longer in distance on the motorway.

Your husband is well out of this firm if they are so tight fisted as to operate in this way. Over time it will cost them a lot more in recruitment and training costs than the savings they are making, if people keep leaving.....

Edited by Happy Blue! on 07/02/2016 at 13:10

Vauxhall Insignia Sports Tourer - Is this MPG-based scheme unfair? Help please! - focussed

There are strict legal rules as to what an employer can deduct from wages or salary.

Basically, unless he has agreed in writing, they cannot make the deduction you speak of.

All you have to do is to prove that he didn't agree - which may be difficult.

www.gov.uk/understanding-your-pay/deductions-from-...y

Possibly first visit a Citizens Advice Bureau for advice.

Vauxhall Insignia Sports Tourer - Is this MPG-based scheme unfair? Help please! - craig-pd130

Sorry, meant to add....if he had actually done 500 private miles, he might end up being charged for 800, where in fact the 300 were really business miles. Over time, this adds up to him paying for quite a few miles that the company should be paying for.

In which case, if you want to contest this with the employer, your hubby needs to take the uncertainty out of the equation and present as complete a list as possible of his business mileage, backed up by the appointments he has had on each working day.

Then an accurate calculation can be made, rather than the current guesstimates which are obviously skewed in favour of the company.

If you DO plan to contest it, rather than just leaving the job and chalking it up to experience, you should really compile all the hard evidence in your favour that you can. It sounds like the employer relies on employees not keeping accurate records of their mileage, and being able to chisel them because of this.

If you decide to argue your point, but go into it only half-prepared, the employer will roll you over. If you have all the evidence, and present it politely but forcefully, it makes it a) harder for them to chisel you and b) likely that they will realise you might take this further, and so accelerate a quick settlement.

It's your call as to whether the legwork in pulling together the evidence is worth the effort.

Vauxhall Insignia Sports Tourer - Is this MPG-based scheme unfair? Help please! - Smileyman

It's a crazy method, obscure and difficult to run. for instance, how does the employer know to calculate the business miles? If there is no mileage log do they google the distance between appointments? We all know the mpg figures quoted are a joke, use this forum to ascertain real mpg for the car. Then there is the issue of speed, I presume your husband sticks to 50 to maximise the mpg acheived, even if he is late for appointments.

I do wonder whether HMRC would be interested in this scheme, since without a mileage log how can they be sure all private mileage is properly accounted for?

Are you aware of the HMRC advisory fuel only rates? https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/advisory-fuel-rates. Since the car is company owned / taxed / insured / maintained these are the appropriate rates ot use. (not the 45p / 25p per mile for private cars used for business) Does your husband keep a log of his mileage (even though it is not asked of him). If so, work out what the deductions should be and compare.

As an accountant working in industry my thoughts are drawn to whether the scheme is found wanting as there will be a tax bill for someone to pay. You could ask HMRC if your husband could have income tax relief on the fuel he is being charged for but not using. Better but not essential that you have a mileage log to support this request. No harm in asking.

I would certainly look at the ACAS route and they will be able to advise further. As for legality, on first look it certainly seems harsh, but it may well be legal.

Finally, bravo for seeking advice through a forum such as this.