Returning a used car question.

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Wed 26 Aug 2015 17:59
Returning a used car question. - Elfinacide

I brought the 2010 car from a car marketsuper under 3 weeks ago and I phoned the main dealer acouple of days after to discuss the car and they said it was due a free warranty change of the DSG automatix gearbox oil - so i booked it in. When they did the change they found the twin clutches needed to be changed.

I have experienced the occassional juddering (1st-2nd) and jerky gear changes when in start stop traffic and the car is fully warmed up - not a good ride at all. Ive stopped using the car.

The cost is around £1400 and - i would say - this clearly was a pre existing problem as only had it for 4 days prior. I also have a written report from the VW dealer so i have genuine undisputable evidence.

My question is can i request a full refund and return the car as its "unsatisfactory quality" as its still within the first 3-4 weeks of purchase? I partly dont trust them to fix it properly - and partly the nature of the fault on this model of car means it might have problems down the road...

Any advice would be appreciated. Not sure how cooperative the dealer will be.

Edited by Elfinacide on 26/08/2015 at 18:09

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Wed 26 Aug 2015 18:12
Returning a used car question. - skidpan

I dont trust them to fix it properly

You might not but what proof do you have of their alleged incompetance.

You have to give them the opportunity to fix any issues, I belive they can have 3 goes to get it right.

Your problem is you have let another garage touch the car now and that is not in your favour.

But in reality it appears to me you have don your research after buying (not a good idea) and discovered that theis gearbox has issues

Having researched this last week I know now this gearbox is not the most reliable...

This looks like buyers remourse and is not a reason for a refund.

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Wed 26 Aug 2015 18:24
Returning a used car question. - Elfinacide

I hear you skidpan. But on *legal* footing - the genuine pre-existing fault withn 3 weeks - am i entitled to refund?

The way it was discovered was unplanned. Im very glad it was as six months down the road i might have been left with the cost.

I would say im not liable to pay for this repair at the very least - true?

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Wed 26 Aug 2015 18:44
Returning a used car question. - nortones2

I also very much doubt non-VAG mechanics have the training to deal with DSG boxes. Get legal advice if the seller won't comply.

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Wed 26 Aug 2015 19:29
Returning a used car question. - Andrew-T

On *legal* footing - the genuine pre-existing fault withn 3 weeks - am i entitled to refund?

The way it was discovered was unplanned. Im very glad it was as six months down the road i might have been left with the cost.

I would say im not liable to pay for this repair at the very least - true?

As I understand it, if you buy a car which clearly had an inherent fault, you are entitled to require the seller to rectify the fault. A car supermarket may be poorly placed to do this, but that is where you should go first. It's up to them to decide whether to farm out the work. It's not up to you to choose where it should be done, just to get the fault fixed at their expense.

If they won't play ball, then things get harder. Just hope that they don't.

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Wed 26 Aug 2015 19:42
Returning a used car question. - thunderbird

and partly the nature of the fault on this model of car means it might have problems down the road

You cannot return a car for refund simply because "it might have problems down the road". That arguement will simply get laughed at.

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Wed 26 Aug 2015 20:22
Returning a used car question. - RT

and partly the nature of the fault on this model of car means it might have problems down the road

You cannot return a car for refund simply because "it might have problems down the road". That arguement will simply get laughed at.

The argument "it might have problems down the road" applies to every car that's bought, new or used, and many other items as well.

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Wed 26 Aug 2015 20:52
Returning a used car question. - Elfinacide

I understand your reply .... I should have kept my original post concise and on point - point being my *legal* stand point - and not included my natural thought process around the situation - a tricky & stressful situation.

I plan to keep my communications with the dealer strictly on a valid legal framework.

Im just looking to get the best legal recourse - ideally refund, or repair - that I am entitled to. See what happens..

I am waiting for a call back for Which? Legal and ill go from there. Hopefully whatever happens its not too stressful and doesnt leave me out of pocket...

Thank you to all that replied.

Edited by Elfinacide on 26/08/2015 at 20:56

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Thu 27 Aug 2015 01:07
Returning a used car question. - pd

It depends on how bad it is. The car does not need to drive like new or be as good as new. If it is typical of the breed and gearbox for the sort of age and mileage that is good enough.

A bit of juddering and the odd change doesn't automatically (no pun) mean it has a "fault". Merely that DSG gearboxes are a bit c*ap once a few years and miles old. That isn't the seller's problem - that is yours for buying a car with such a gearbox.

It really depends how many miles it has done and how bad it truly is.

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Sat 29 Aug 2015 00:13
Returning a used car question. - focussed

"Your problem is you have let another garage touch the car now and that is not in your favour."

Nonsense - the change of fluid was a recall by the VW dealer - are you saying that any warranty work done by a dealer allows the seller to wash their hands of any responsibility?

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Sat 29 Aug 2015 09:21
Returning a used car question. - skidpan

"Your problem is you have let another garage touch the car now and that is not in your favour."

Nonsense - the change of fluid was a recall by the VW dealer - are you saying that any warranty work done by a dealer allows the seller to wash their hands of any responsibility?

When the OP suspected there was a problem he took the car to a different garage, in this case a VW dealer. That is not the correct thing to do. In the first instance you should go directly to the seller, its up to them to decide how to deal with any issues, after all they are paying. If after they have had the oportunity to sort it the issue and its still there its is common sense to get a second opinion and then present this to the seller. You do not just get work done by a 3rd party and expect the seller to pay.

The fact that the VW dealer did an FOC oil change is irreleveant, its the fact they diagnosed the need for new clutches that is the big issue. No seller is going to write a huge cheque for such work without being given the opportunity to sort it first.

But the main issue is the car is not broken, it works but has the normal DSG charisteristics and the VW dealer is probably hoping for a big pay day.

Its been used as an example before but if you bought a new TV from Amazon would you take it to Currys if it broke and expect Amazon to pay. Of course not.

Edited by skidpan on 29/08/2015 at 09:22

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Sat 29 Aug 2015 11:46
Returning a used car question. - nortones2

It seems the OP took the vehicle to a VAG garage for a recall issue. Perfectly correct, and not directly relevant to the "fault", except the VAG garage diagnosed faulty clutches. How far the OP has taken this issue with the seller is unclear. I agree they need to have sight of the vehicle and the report to judge for themselves, and respond.

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Fri 18 Sep 2015 17:41
Returning a used car question. - Elfinacide

I have now received a full refund.

It was totally straight forward which i didn't expect. It could be that i just got lucky? Lucky in the sense the dealer had some knowledge of an existing issue or the fact that it was diagnosed by VW so they didn’t bother challenging it or by communicating my legal position quickly, concisely & clearly - or a combination of all - who knows…

Anyway, after informing the dealer of the issue (including copy of VW advisory) they took the car back to inspect. I got a call shortly after saying they would refund in full. A few days later I received a cheque for the full amount which has now cleared. Just over 2 weeks from start to finish. I followed up all emails & phone calls with a recorded delivery letter with my decision / legal position and summary of comms.

The key legal bit is - I think - if you report a fault within the first 3-4 weeks you do not have to accept a repair or an exchange, you are entitled to a refund due to a breach of contract i.e. goods of unsatisfactory quality.

But as I said, my situation may have additional factors that i am unaware of that contributed to an unchallenged refund - as most people say it's difficult to return a car. The dealer representative was professional and consistent throughout - but there was no discussion about the matter just inspection-refund-cheque-end.

Im obvously happy that i can now look again and hopefully avoid or minimise that chance of a repeat with the help of this site and deeper research into any potential make model i become interested in.

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Fri 18 Sep 2015 18:45
Returning a used car question. - RobJP

Many thanks for coming and reporting the result, and best of luck with the searching !

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Fri 18 Sep 2015 19:42
Returning a used car question. - scot22

Like to second Rob's thanks and commend the courteous posts you made. Delighted you had a good outcome.

My current car was bought before I discovered HJ. Next purchase will be much better informed.

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Sat 19 Sep 2015 21:09
Returning a used car question. - fadis

Congratulations on your success to return the money back.

I have had similar story to your car (bought 3 weeks ago) , the main fault in mine is that it is leaking oil badly. Halford reported three faults and quoted me £1000 to repair the issue. Would you please guide me on how you sought legal advice?

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Sun 20 Sep 2015 23:34
Returning a used car question. - Elfinacide

Fadis - If you post a seperate thread with more info about your problem im sure people will try to help.

Im not an expert but the first 3-4 weeks is an important legal time window to be aware of otherwise rejecting the car becomes less possible. Act quickly.

I didnt know anything about my legal rights when buying a car so it took me 5 days to research the law online (and asking here). Then i remembered we had a subscription to *Which? Legal Service* (google it) so i called them for advice to clarify the law in my situation. They told me i had a strong case to reject the car and how to go about it - but the lawyers *dont* do anything for you other than advise. I needed a lawyer to confirm what i had researched was correct and apply their experience to my specific situation. I then called and wrote to the dealer etc myself.

It worked out very well for me but even the Which? Legal adviser told me it could take 3-4 months and going to small claims court before you get your money back. Thankfully it didnt.

I hope this helps. Goodluck.

www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/sale-of...t

www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/action/which-consu...e

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