One thing I have noticed is that the ratings of the same make and model of tyre change with size. For some reason they seem to be worse, the smaller the size of tyre.
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I noticed that too. I think it is because a smaller wheel has less area in contact with the road, giving less grip. Throw in the fact that cars with small tyres tend to be lighter, and the difference in grip might be significant.
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The thing I find odd is that the fuel efficiency rating is also worse on the smaller tyres. I would have thought that less contact area would have given less friction and better economy.
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I'm surprised the Kumho's were so bad, since they are as pointed out a mid range brand. I have learnt a good lesson, namely only ever buy either premium tyres, or mid range ones known to be good e.g. uniroyal wotsite. I heard back from VW UK, pointing out that they cannot test all car and tyre combinations, which is reasonable.
I had the same tyres om y Hyundai i10 so sunds more liley there were faulty/fitted badly or something else as they certainly aren't unsafe tyres and from your videos something else must have caused that to happen or there would be a lot of accidents invloving the tyres.
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Hello Alan
Thanks for the information. You are the first person I've come across with the same tyres on the same class of car. I do agree that if the issue is the design, then any simikar car would likely have an accident, clearly you didn't. I assume mine were fitted properly, since the car did not vibrate indicating that they were properly balanced, and the car did not veer to one side when I took my hands off the wheel, suggesting that the tracking was okay. Maybe someone more knowledgeable than me can comment. As I've said earlier, front and rear tyres were from different batches. The rear ones could have been faulty. Unless Kumho get in touch we will never know, and I don't see them openly admitting a fault unless they have to. I have no idea how common tyre faults are.
How did you find handling compared to other tyres on the same car?
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Thread resurrection alert !!!
I'm only responding coz I happened to see the clip of the car on the roundabout and a member mentioned he'd put the KH27s on a Hyundai i10.
I put 4 x Kumho ES01 Ecowing KH27 on a Hyundai i10 this very afternoon (four x 165 / 65 / 14 cost £167 fitted in Newton Abbot.)
The Goodyear All Seasons that were on there had lots of tread left but all four had developed a crack running radially on the shoulder, just where the sidewall meets the actual tread pattern. They were fitted in May 2011 and had done 16,600 miles and could have possibly caused an MOT failure (I did ask and was told it was a bit borderline and pass or fail would depend how the tester felt on the day!)
Obviously I have nothing to report today but they do feel more comfortable and, possibly, a bit quieter than the others. Maybe tyres get a bit hard over time and these are still soft and supple compared to the old ones? Whether they're more economical remains to be seen.
The way my wife drives suggests she will never, in normal circumstances, put the tyres to any sort of test ... and it's not too likely that I will either. The only possible challenge would come in some sort of emegency stop or deviation from the straight ahead, and none of us know how their tyres will react (unless we have acknowledged ditchfinders fitted - and even then there's no guarantees of anything in this life - for the better or worse).
So no horror stories as we speak - but, as has been said, they're not very old and have've only covered 6 miles.
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If you look at the second clip you’ll see I go round a small roundabout at a very modest speed and the back end goes again, but that time I was able to use the steering wheel to correct the skid. So either that model of tyres is unsafe on light cars, or there was something wrong with the batch I had e.g. fakes, or maybe they are sourced from several factories. No doubt you will let us know of any incidents though I hope you have no need to.
I am actually a very sedate driver, averaging 64 mpg from my petrol VW Polo, no points on my licence in 20 years, 14 years NCB (but only 9 credited). I’m not one to push a car, I like a comfortable relaxing journey to the destination, albeit I’m no mimser.
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Noted, thanks, and, of course, if anything untoward occurs I shall let it be known. I read that it's a good idea to allow 200 miles on new tyres to scrub off whatever it is that needs scrubbing off, therefore there'll not be any quick replies as the car doesn't do many miles (16,600 miles since June 2011!)
I'm still waiting to see if the Millers additive does anything - but with such low mileage it'll take a while. Maybe the combination of these new "eco" tyres and the Millers additive the car might do more than the current 30 mpg. :-(
(I'm not holding my breath)
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I'm stating the obvious, but short journeys won't give you good mpg. You might benefit from an Italian tune up, or a few tanks of premium fuel if your valves are a bit coked up.
Yes apparently there is release compound on new tyres which can be slippy. Mine had done more than enough miles to remove the release compound so that was not the cause of my skids.
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Go have a look on the Tyre Reviews website - both the 'magazine' reviews and those from real people (you can sort by car, tyre size or by make/model of tyre) to see how others got along with the Khumos for your car or similar ones (size/weight/engines).
Note that such user reviews also can state the annual and specific mileage on their tyres reviewed and the type of driving they do, which can make a LOT of difference, as can the area they live in (climate, etc).
Unfortunately some tyres just don't cut the mustard generally or just for some cars, but are fine on others. I found sites like that very useful as they can at least tell you what tyres NOT to get or whether the OEMs fitted to a car are worth keeping and for how long before they must be changed.
Some are fine (even on low mileage) for many years, others get hard and brittle quickly and can be quite dangerous in poor road conditions. That's what I found out (very poor user review scores) for the OEMs on my car, after I experienced two very hairy incidents within a week or two of eachother in very moderately wet conditions. The difference the new tyres made and continued to do so until I changed them recently at the same age and wear was significant.
Research is your friend, and possibly a life saver.
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Personally, I find the user reviews next to useless. Generally they are comparing their old, worn out tyres with the new ones, they do not have enough experience to be able to compare characteristics and thirdly, most will not admit to having made a bad purchase.
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I did spend (cough) hours doing as much research as seemed reasonable, on the review sites and various forums and, as B_I_G says, the results aren't necessarily especially conclusive.
But, overall, you get a feeling for the ones that are definitely off the list and those that seem to find favour with a majority of some sort.
And, for me, the conclusion was that Kumhos are never at the bottom of the pile, nor right at the top - but, for purpose intended, the price paid and the reputation and convenience of the supplier/fitters I was happy to have chosen a sensible tyre.
But, as always, time will tell.
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I agree that the overall score of the user review can be significantly skewed by 'rouge results' from people who obviously don't know either how to drive properly and/or who run tyres 'till their bald, but I find its worth going through them on an individual basis (I believe I found Leif's far more considered one) which can sort the proverbial wheat from the chaff.
Besides Leif's (presumed) review, I found that from the QQ owner also to be 'reasonable', both of which said that their cars were very poor in the wet on roundabouts. The magazine reviews also stated that wet perfomance was lacking. Given there weren't too many user reviews, I would more likely go by the magazine ones. Some of the more popular tyres DO, however, have many user reviews and scores, and so, like with the average 'real mpg' on HJ, the outlier scores tend to cancel eachother out, and you have far more decent personal reviews to go by.
The KH27's magaine scores wouldn't fill me with confidence, as those tests also include some tyres that are either long in the tooth, very economy biased or especially cheapo 'ditchfinder' types, which means that in reality, they came near the bottom if you just included premium and mid-range tyre brands.
Unfortunately most of them only test new/unworn tyres, so its difficult to always know how such tyres will behave when even half worn or after 3-4 years of low use. I think some have started to provide this sort of test, but it still can be quite subjective as the tyres have to be artifiially worn down rather than spending many months just driving them around great distances to accomplish a 'true' wearing down. Better than nothing I suppose.
As I said before, there still seems to be large variations in the performance of some tyres from one make and model of car to another, not just FWD to RWD and 4WD as may have been in the past, which doesn't help us trying to decide. What can make a large difference would be all of us bothering to properly and (brutally) honestly reviewing our tyres when new, part worn and nearing replacement time, so others can see how they fare.
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Personally, I find the user reviews next to useless. Generally they are comparing their old, worn out tyres with the new ones, they do not have enough experience to be able to compare characteristics and thirdly, most will not admit to having made a bad purchase.
They can tell you how long they lasted compared to other tyres on the same car, and general views on handling. Obviously small differences are irrelevant, as that's too subjective, but obvious ones such as lots of road noise, or poor grip in the wet. You have to note the make and model of car since as mentioned above, that makes a huge difference. The KH27 might be fine on heavy cars with large wheels, but bad on light cars with small wheels, or maybe something else is at play.
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As I've said, it's far too early to make any sensible observation regarding the performance of these things - especially in the wet.
However, having done a few miles on them I'm astounded at the difference new tyres seem to make in other areas - the car is definitely quieter and definitely more comfortable insofar as it absorbs bumps and surface imperfections when compared to the old ones. I'm sure the old Goodyear Vector 4Seasons were OK when new ... yes, they developed a crack on the shoulders of all four tyres but only after six or seven years .... BUT with the benefit of hindsight they crashed and bashed over bumps towards the last few ... months or years even. In actual fact I've been increasingly unhappy with the car as it had become so unpleasant to be in but it now feels like a different car.
It's been dry today and, in any event, they're nowhere near scrubbed in therefore the handling is neither here nor there - it goes round corners and starts and stops perfectly well, as would be expected ... but the car just feels so different. I can't believe that the fact that they're supposed to be "eco" tyres and are reckoned to offer less rolling resistance could be detected, but the car even seems to roll easier and more smoothly. Clearly I'm going mad ... or at the very least I think I must be susceptible to "mind over matter" coz I even think that since putting the Millers additive in the tank the car has a bit more enthusiasm than it had before - but that must be utter nonsense on my behalf.
Time to make an appointment to get my bumps felt.
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Different tyres do feel (both in handling and ride) and sound different too, it's not just age related either tyres or us :-), because i've disposed of poor gripping tyres very early into their life several times and this applies as much to premium as budget makes, i will not keep tyres on that are plainly not up to the mark just to get some use out of them, up to £400 on new boots or untold risk if getting some use out of poor tyres leads to an accident...no choice there.
I've removed Nankang, Federal, Michelin, Pirelli and others long before their time, in all but the third make when the tyres were still virtually as new, the first brand were already fitted, the second brand was an experiment to see if my prejudices were still valid, after two unprovoked violent oversteers in my old Merc i had my answer, the last OE fitted brand on a brand new vehicle were a complete disappointment in all conditions, its usually wet slippery roads where you quickly find out what you have.
Cost is not everything here, i've had fantastic grip from very keenly priced Uniroyals and my daughter is reporting good wet grip from the recently fitted Japanese made bargain priced Falkens on her present Civic she uses for everyday.
The new Fulda's already fitted to SWMBO Forester appear to give a hard/noisy ride, though grip well, in a few months time the much softer riding winter set will be going on and if there are marked improvements then another summer set will be on the cards and those Falkens will be in the running.
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i've disposed of poor gripping tyres very early into their life several times and this applies as much to premium as budget makes.
Ditto, I've removed Michelin Primacys off two used cars I've bought when half worn, the cars were a C5 and a Nissan Primera - in both cases I found the Michelins to be dangerous in the wet - truely awful. On my Lexus RX I removed the horrible Bridgestone Duelers, again, squeally and unpredicable in the wet, and replaced them with Toyo Open Country HTs, which were light years better, the General Grabber AT3s I have on now hang on wet or dry (despite being ATs) are quiet, comfortable and if they're anything like the older versions I had on my Range Rover will last 40K miles. Also had plenty of budget tyres that have performed well, including the much maligned Nankang N607s on my C5 and my missises old C3. A set of Viking all-seasons sorted the wet handing of an ex's MX5 that was dangerous on its hardly-worn Bridgestones, Took a set of O/E Continental eco contacts off her brand new Polo too due to poor wet weather perfomance and annoying squealing in the dry, replacing them with Uniroyals which were superb. The half-worn Pirelli P6000s on my XJ8 made way for (much better) Kumhos, interestingly the Pirelli PZeroes on my XJR were superb. Took a set of Dunlops off my other half's SX4 (only one third worn) I think they had age hardened and replaced them with Firestone Multiseasons - great value and excellent so far in all conditions. (I've used all season tyres exclusively for the last ~15 years.)
(edit to remove mileage reference to Toyos, just checked my log and it was wrong)
Edited by SteveLee on 02/09/2018 at 23:43
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Got to admit the above two posts have me confused. To remove so many major manufacturer tyres has to be worrying. I wonder how many people do actually remove big name part worn tyres and bin them?
I see above that Kumhos found more favour than Pirelli and Uniroyals replaced Continentals (reassuring given that I just fitted four new Kumhos - which, to date, haven't caused any dramas).
I think I'm missing something here..... I can't remember ever thinking that any of my tyres have let me down - and I've been buying tyres since 1968 (I recall having four new Goodyear G800 radials fitted to a 105E Anglia and thinking I was one cool dude).
I've never fitted Chinese ditchfinders and alway gone for the major names and if I've ever had a scary moment it would have been due to an error on my part rather than a tyre that wasn't doing it's job ... the current Kumhos are the only departure from the premium brands that I can recall buying in all that time.
I'm obviously not driving fast enough to put these things to the test.
Edited by KB. on 02/09/2018 at 23:52
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To remove so many major manufacturer tyres has to be worrying. I wonder how many people do actually remove big name part worn tyres and bin them?
I'm obviously not driving fast enough to put these things to the test.
Probably not many (but i'm talking over the years here, not every few months), and can only speak for myself but i am not putting up with tyres which do not grip decently enough in the wet, soon as i detect that light feeling through the seat of my pants when a tyre isn't doing what it should it's off..
Same with brake friction materials, if it lacks 'feel' as some do then it's bye bye current pads no matter how much life is left in them...best pads over the years i found were Ferodo, which became very difficult to source, but recently experimenting with Brembo materials i have found that soft progressive feel and serious bite when needed, which you just don't find with other brands.
You don't have to drive fast to discover very quickly whats good and whats isn't, and anyway making good progress isn't about driving fast its maintaining constant smooth uninterrupted progress, once you get to know your vehicle you instinctively develop a feel for what's happening at the wheels, which just makes driving that more pleasurable when you know that there is a lot of grip in reserve that you don't normally use.
Things change after a few years too, tyre compounds harden and some tyres which start well morph into useless skiddoos once half worn.
I had a pair of G800s on my mk 3 Zodiac, most useless tyre i've ever bought, bald in 3000 miles of no grip whatsoever, the Unisteel from the same maker was a revelation though when i swapped them for a ditchfinding set of Michelins on my then Ventora, the Unisteels transformed the car from virtually undriveable in the wet to a decent handling safe car.
Edited by gordonbennet on 03/09/2018 at 00:22
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Same with brake friction materials, if it lacks 'feel' as some do then it's bye bye current pads no matter how much life is left in them...best pads over the years i found were Ferodo, which became very difficult to source, but recently experimenting with Brembo materials i have found that soft progressive feel and serious bite when needed, which you just don't find with other brands.
Weird you should say that, I use Brembo pads with all my motorbikes - by far the best pads IMHO, I used to like EBC HHs but recent (presumably enrivonmentally driven) friction material changes have changed them to being wooden and biteless. Just took the stock pads out of my 1,000 mile old motorbike and replaced them with Brembos. Although it must be said, I'm not bothered about brake feel with cars, you have stability control and ABS and can just stamp on the pedal as hard as you like and let the electronics sort the mess out. On a bike (even with ABS) you still need feel. I buy the cheapest pad at Eurocarparts when there's an offer - generally Eicher and have had no complaints, the cheapeo Eichers feel no worse than the stock pads in my Lexus RX - I changed these after receiving an advisory at the last MOT - only to discover they were only 40% worn - but changed 'em anyway while I was there. (with a 50% discount, pads only cost £23!)
In the summer I replace car tyres at 3mm tread depth or 4mm in the winter. In the wet, cheapo Chinese "ditchfinders" with 4mm of tread are going to out-perform premium rubber that's been allowed to wear down to the markers coz the owner can't afford to replace them.
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I'm not bothered about brake feel with cars, you have stability control and ABS and can just stamp on the pedal as hard as you like and let the electronics sort the mess out.
Must be me then because i try to drive as if none of that stuff was ever invented, hence why i like 'feel', and i like a soft gentle progressive brake pedal, i simply can't abide that all or nothing brake that became the standard for many German brakes years ago, with pads so hard they didn't wear but instead wore the discs down rapidly.
Don't forget i drive lorries for a living and have done so for well over 40 years, and trust me the lack of adhesion with many lorry tyres in the wet would shock many car drivers to the bone, and yes we have all this stability cobblers which isn't actually as foolproof as some people think (especially TC/ASR), so my driving is permanently by feel for what is happening down at the road, and that has affected how i drive my own vehicles and probably why i'm much more at home in my old Landcruiser than i am in a car.
It would be an interestig experiment to disconnect all these traction/driving aids and let people see for themselves just what grip their vehicles really have on wet surfaces, and to realise it maybe isn't their driving ability keeping the car on the road but electronics saving the day for their hamfisted overexuberance, note how many BMW's (other makes are availalble) can take and leave roundabouts under what appears to be full throttle, you go back 25 years and that driving would have and did result in spin offs and bouncing off the armco regularly.
By the way, how many have noticed just how slippery the surfaces are now when wet, this summer has melted a lot of the top layer which is like glass in between the pot holes and previous cable bodging suspension proving sections, going to be an interesting autumn on the roads.
Edited by gordonbennet on 03/09/2018 at 10:24
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Must be me then because i try to drive as if none of that stuff was ever invented
personally I forget the motor has these aids and drive as usual, bearing in mind the area where I live borders of LEZ London, is difficult to get any speed going unless its school holidays, which now they are going back would be lucky to hit 20mph and get stuck by schools where drivers could use retraining in maneuvering
example - most of the drivers that cause my brakes to start engaging are the type that take chances by pulling out on hard acceleration from left of me- onto the roundabout that I started crossing trying to beat me going across my front, trouble is once your on the roundabout and the car from the left closes the gap to the point the brakes start engaging, it can prevent you getting off the roundabout as fast as you would otherwise be able to.
so in that scenario its almost impossible to actually do anything about it all the time you have idiots about like that
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Well, yes, I hear what you say. And have been driving long enough to realise that making progress and simply going fast aren't the same thing (I had it drummed into me when doing advanced driving courses and blue light driving courses in my younger days.... so am vaguely familiar with the term "making progress" .... clearly I should have been more specific when saying (partly in jest) that I'm not driving fast enough.
Although the fact is, when I and my Mrs are negotiating the roads on Dartmoor (where there's a blanket 40mph limit throughout) - or having a day in the country or coastal lanes of Devon or Cornwall, there's really little opportunity to find out, by the seat of my pants, whether my tyres are gonna lose grip on the next bend. I'm usually more concerned that there might be sleeping sheep or a herd of ponies (or a caravan) in the road. And if I get on a dual carriageway or motorway, then, again, I'll not be looking to test the adhesion limits - and in any case driving round the back lanes hereabouts my Mrs wouldn't thank me for driving round bends fast enough to get close to the point where a two or four wheel slide is imminent - she doesn't want to be slung from side to side or subject to constant acceleration and deceleration on the way back from having a pub meal.
And, yet again .... I've had new brakes fitted (quite recently actually) and I allow a period for them to bed in, but thereafter I'm damned if I can tell any difference in the way my car(s) retard my progress. Every now and again I do check that they are going to stop me during a planned heavy brake but I've rarely had cause to doubt the ability of either myself or my car to perform adequately in the circumstances.
But, don't forget, I(we) drive a Hyundai and a Skoda and neither are of the 'turbo nutter' variety.
But, as ever, I shall look and listen and learn from what I see and hear and hope to benefit accordingly.
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Just a line following the protracted discussions that have gone before.
I said I would add to the the topic after the Kumhos had been on for a while.
Over the course of the time that the four Kumho KH27sI have been fitted (four months now), I have, from time to time, recalled the "slippage" that was mentioned and the subsequent comments. It has absolutely no scientific significance whatsoever, and is purely my own observation but I must report that the Kumhos have performed in very much the same way I would have expeceted them to - no slips or slides in the wet and nothing out of the ordinary.
Again I say it proves nothing ... but I most definitely haven't felt the car doing anything untoward and, at present, have no cause to regret fitting them.
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Interesting. You are driving a similar kind of car as my old one, and yet they are fine. That suggests the tyre car combination is not the issue. I did wonder if I had fake tyres, but do such things exist? Or perhaps there is variation in the quality control, or several factories making them. I really am not a nutter behind the wheel, rather sedate actually, I now use a VW app that records my journeys, and I am always described as having a ‘gentle’ driving style. I currently get over 60 mpg from the petrol engine in my new Polo, so I am no throttle junky. So despite what one or two people have said elsewhere, my driving style is not the issue. All very odd.
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^^ All received.
Don't think we'll progress much further.... it's odd to be sure.
Like yourself neither I nor the wife drive hard into bends in the wet - maybe if I were to add some more enthusiasm into the mix then it might be a bit more conclusive but you don't see 2011 Hyundai i10 automatics being driven that way round these parts very often.
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Interesting. You are driving a similar kind of car as my old one, and yet they are fine. That suggests the tyre car combination is not the issue. I did wonder if I had fake tyres, but do such things exist? Or perhaps there is variation in the quality control, or several factories making them. I really am not a nutter behind the wheel, rather sedate actually, I now use a VW app that records my journeys, and I am always described as having a ‘gentle’ driving style. I currently get over 60 mpg from the petrol engine in my new Polo, so I am no throttle junky. So despite what one or two people have said elsewhere, my driving style is not the issue. All very odd.
Could've just been a bad batch. I'm not exactly sure if and how they would test the tyres before they leave the factory.
Of course, there may well be an intermediary or two between the factory and the tyre fitters, includng several HGV drivers who could swap them out with dodgy fakes for a criminal organisation, but that's getting into the relms of TV dramas.
Just be thankful that you found out they were no good without being in a serious accident and just a minor incident.
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Or perhaps there is variation in the quality control, or several factories making them.
You have possibly found your answer there.
Over 3 sets of tyres of the same make/type used on the track I found that the country of origin made a huge difference.
Had a set of Bridgestone RE720 (normal road tyres) on the Caterham from 2000 to 2002. They (and their brother the SO2 - for larger diameter wheels) were at the time the best of the MSA List 1A approved tyres in both construction and tread compound, use a different tyre and you would never win. The tyres were 185 60 13 size and were shaved to 4mm tread before use. After 2 seasons they still had near 3mm tread left and had helped me win many pots for the cupboard and set many personal best laps.
At this time I changed engines and this needed a rethink on tyres. The new engine was taller and had a different power delivery. Basically the car need gearing up and raising for sump clearance. Considering I needed a new set of tyres (after 2 seasons the rubber is past its best) and already had a set of 15" wheels the easiest (and cheapest) solution was a set of shaved RE720 tyres on the 15" rims in a suitable size.
Well the car was not great. Had more spins and off track excursions than I had previously experienced and considering the new engine was more powerful I was struggling to match my previous best times. Kept trying for 2 seasons and decided a rethink was needed.
That winter a mate emigrated and I bought a set of 14" wheels from him for a bargain price. Fitted a set of 185 60 14 RE720's shaved exactly as before. First event of the year and I was a happy bloke. Car was instantly back to its best and I was setting new personal bests and was up at the front again.
What was the difference. Set 1 185 60 13 tyres were Made in Japan. Set 2 195 50 15 front tyres were Polish and the 205 50 15 rear tyres were Spanish. Set 3 185 60 14 were Japanese again.
Not all RE720's were the same.
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Thanks skidpan, excellent information. Clearly not case closed, but this is consistent with the conflicting online reviews, some love them, others say they have no transverse grip. I had a quick Google and saw no mention of the country of origin of the tyre. I wonder if the supposed premium makes are more consistent?
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I had the RE720s (175/60 R13 H) on my old MY96 Nissan Micra 1.0 S to replace some worn out OEM Dunlops at about the same time (2003 I think) - absolutely brilliant tyres (not sure where they were made, but loved that aggressive 'v' directional tread pattern) - they almost made my car handle well, especially in the wet!
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Apologies if I've missed a point already made, but I found that extra caution is needed on wet oily roundabouts in spring just after the new winter tyres have been swapped back to the half-worn summer ones. I have only had the luxury of winter tyres for one season - the difference in grip is very noticeable.
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Apologies if I've missed a point already made, but I found that extra caution is needed on wet oily roundabouts in spring just after the new winter tyres have been swapped back to the half-worn summer ones. I have only had the luxury of winter tyres for one season - the difference in grip is very noticeable.
It’s a longish thread, but I’ll recap. I had been driving for several decades and never before had a skid in the wet, then I had two in the space of a month. On both occasions there were no sudden movements of the steering wheel, no sharp press of the accelerator. You might think I was too fast on the first one, but it’s a very large roundabout and everyone does that sort of speed, in fact I am often overtaken, and in the video the car to my left is at about the same speed and taking a sharper left hand bend. On the second occasion there were other cars doing the same modest speed, so why no huge pile of crashed cars? The first time I put it down to an oily wet road, after the second time I decided that the tyres were at fault. Possibly any issue with the tyres is exaggerated by having a light car with small wheels.
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Lets be very blunt - we all like to believe we are drivers of supreme talent quite capable of despatching the Nurburgring in a sub 10 min time given the right motor under our right foot.
Reality is that it could be tyres, excess speed, rain, oil on road etc. I'm inclined generally to believe that most of these events are driver error, sometimes influenced by external factors.
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Lets be very blunt - we all like to believe we are drivers of supreme talent quite capable of despatching the Nurburgring in a sub 10 min time given the right motor under our right foot.
Reality is that it could be tyres, excess speed, rain, oil on road etc. I'm inclined generally to believe that most of these events are driver error, sometimes influenced by external factors.
Well you are wrong from the outset. Were I to drive that circuit, I would do badly. I have never driven a performance car, or driven in a racing circuit. Those skills take years to develop and such driving is completely inappropriate on public roads. You don’t routinely get over 60 mpg from a petrol Polo by driving ‘enthusiastically’. 20 years driving, never any points on my licence. Only ever two skids in the wet, both within a few weeks of each other, both on tyres a few months old. Sure it could in theory be any of the factors you mention, but I have no doubt the tyres were not safe.
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Have no fear - your original thread convinced us that driver error was unlikely. And - touch wood - this hasn't happened to you again since 2015.
The bad batch theory (Andy) and varying standards according to where manufactured (Skidpan) seem to me to make the most sense: probably as near as we'll ever get to an answer.
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