What are the requirements for a "trade terms" sale

Honest John Back Room » Legal matters
View Threaded
Wed 27 May 2015 02:12
What are the requirements for a "trade terms" sale - Schrödinger's Cat

Hi

I bought a car from a used car dealer. When we negotiated price I haggled and we agreed £200 less than the windscreen price.

Very soon after collecting the car I found out it has a faulty engine. I took the car straight back but they didn't want to know. I'm now going to small claims court.

On the defence statement the trader is claiming that I asked for a discount based on trade terms, which is a complete lie.

Surely there are some requirements for completing a sale under trade terms ? For example, the receipt should be clearly marked "trade terms" or "no warranty" ?

Or will it simply be down to his word against mine when we get to court ?

Thanks in advance

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Wed 27 May 2015 09:02
What are the requirements for a "trade terms" sale - lordwoody

A seller can't overule the law by adding some meaningless words to a receipt.

If you are going to court a judgement will be made based on the facts and what the law says about the situation, not on what or wasn't written on a receipt.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Wed 27 May 2015 09:09
What are the requirements for a "trade terms" sale - RobJP

A seller can't overule the law by adding some meaningless words to a receipt.

If you are going to court a judgement will be made based on the facts and what the law says about the situation, not on what or wasn't written on a receipt.

Agreed. The dealer can only rely on 'trade terms' if it is obvious to a 'reasonable person' that the car was being bought for resale.

So, for example, if the V5 was being filled in with your name on it to go to DVLA when you bought it, then it was obviously NOT a trade sale.

Almost any buyer would ask for a discount. Therefore the fact that you asked for a discount does not make you a trader

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Wed 27 May 2015 11:01
What are the requirements for a "trade terms" sale - Schrödinger's Cat

A seller can't overule the law by adding some meaningless words to a receipt.

If you are going to court a judgement will be made based on the facts and what the law says about the situation, not on what or wasn't written on a receipt.

This is exactly my point.

I don't have a recording of the conversation or a written agreement that this wasn't trade terms.

The only facts available are my word against his. Everything else is implied: we filled out the V5 in his office, the haggled price isn't too good to be true, I've never worked or been involved in the trade, it doesn't make sense he would do a trade sale when he claims the car was in good condition and therefore he would be able to make more profit, etc, etc.

Surely for a trade sale the seller would require a written agreement or witness or something in order to be able to prove that it was indeed a trade sale with no liability ?

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Wed 27 May 2015 11:59
What are the requirements for a "trade terms" sale - FP

As far as I can see, the purchaser has be a trader for the "trade terms" exemption to SOGA to apply.

My guess is that in any legal process, the seller will have to etablish that to make his case stick and the presumption will be that the purchaser is a private individual.

I suggest you write recorded delivery stating the situation with the breakdown and demanding a refund within a given but reasonable time - say, 14 days. In the meantime, you must not use the car.

After that you can proceed down the small claims route.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Wed 27 May 2015 13:34
What are the requirements for a "trade terms" sale - slkfanboy

SOGA applies to all sales trade and consumer. simply conumers have greater protection. "consumers" are defined as people who are buying for the purposes not related to their trade, business or profession.

So basically you need a witness statement from your employer stating that fact.

Any attempt in a contract that can be deamed unreasonable or overiding UK law is simply going to give you grounds to set the contract Implied or otherwise aside, then get a judgement based on what is reasonable.

The basic case you have here is the the is called in legal terms as 'not performing to contract' due to not being of satifactory quality.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Wed 27 May 2015 14:09
What are the requirements for a "trade terms" sale - FP

With respect, SLK, I think the issue is firstly that the contract itself is in dispute. Is it a "consumer contract" or a "trader contract"? If the latter, satisfactory quality doesn't come into it.

I'm not sure that a witness statement from an employer is necessary. A (written) contract of employment should be sufficient.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Fri 29 May 2015 14:33
What are the requirements for a "trade terms" sale - pd

Easiest way to determine it is the price (and that is what a court will look at).

Basically, if you paid around CAP/Glasses Trade or similar the seller will have a strong argument to suggest you knew how you were buying it and knew the terms and it was priced accordingly.

If you paid roughly retail price (regardless of the £200) then it is difficult for anyone to argue it wasn't a normal retail sale.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Fri 29 May 2015 15:39
What are the requirements for a "trade terms" sale - FP

"Basically, if you paid around CAP/Glasses Trade or similar the seller will have a strong argument to suggest you knew how you were buying it and knew the terms and it was priced accordingly."

Maybe, but that won't make the OP into a trader.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link