Does it matter, really? - Alby Back
Just wanted to ask for a bit of feedback, advice, or comment please?

I'm the sales director for a fairly high profile fashion industry wholesale brand. They operate at the higher end of the price/quality scale and attitudinally there is a fairly strong corporate culture that "appearances matter".

So we come to the question of company cars...

Currently I have an E Class estate which serves me very well on a practical level and meets with the approval of my boss and the brand owners.

However, to be honest, for example, any large estate or any large load lugger of a car ( we do a lot of trade exhibitions etc which involve shifting kit around the country and abroad ) would be just as useful in the cold light of day.

Then of course you have the "hierarchical" issues, our reps drive Passats, Mondeos, Insignias, Golfs etc and they don't want the "boss" ( me ) downtrading on the car front in case it means they have to ( it wouldn't, but hey )

I like to have a car which is nice to drive of course but I'm not deluded into thinking that's always a function of how "premium" it's badge is.

If I were to go for something more workmanlike next time it would considerably reduce my commitment to HMRC and on any measurable level, do the job just as well.

Does the panel think any of our customers would give a flying fig?

I don't to be honest but some of my colleagues think it would be a mistake.

What's your take?
Does it matter, really? - gordonbennet

I'm not in business, so take, as you will anyway, this with a pinch of salt.

40 years ago if you were supplying bespoke garments/footwear to Mr Rumbold with Captain Peacock lurking about peering down his nose, it might have been prudent to turn up in something suitable, preferable British.

If you visit senior people from the big names, (somehow i doubt you're in Primark budget range, though nothing wrong with that shop at all), then surely its about you and the products and services, would they even know what you arrived in unless you are wining dining wooing.

Agree with you, the all important customer wouldn't care a jot, the car pecking order matters more to ladder climbers worried about the golf club (or any other club) car park.

If you target horsey or country events then sending your people in a green Land/Range Rover might be a wise choice..:-)

Does it matter, really? - Armitage Shanks {p}

Do the people you are dealing with ever even see your car?

Does it matter, really? - Alby Back
It does get seen sometimes, as in parking outside head offices etc or occasionally I might take someone for lunch or whatever.
Does it matter, really? - oldroverboy.

It does, sadly. To collect our customers, sorry clients in switzerland it was a Range Rover or An XJ...

go for a jag xf sportbreak.

Does it matter, really? - mss1tw

It does, sadly. To collect our customers, sorry clients in switzerland it was a Range Rover or An XJ...

go for a jag xf sportbreak.

Personally I would err on the side of not doing business with a RR driver, but that's the same pointless bias, just the other way round!

Does it matter, really? - oldroverboy.
Personally I would err on the side of not doing business with a RR driver, but that's the same pointless bias, just the other way round.

Didn't say I worked in a jag/rangerover dealership.

Still also nice to borrow a demo when I wanted..
Does it matter, really? - oldroverboy.
Just to make you smile, when the discovery was introduced I took one to a lady client and the ignition key jammed but she still bought one. Went on holiday with her new car and fuel relay went.

But she loved it.
Does it matter, really? - John F

Of course appearance matters. If you want to impress, you should appear to be large, clean, mature and effective.

Now that most large executive cars have adopted the curvy shape of the mid 90s Audi A6 (I am in Australia at present and the GM Holden looks like a direct copy) it should not be too difficult to find a large clean mature reliable vehicle for a few thousand pounds. If you are sensitive about its age, get a vanity plate. If you are badge conscious, remove them.

Does it matter, really? - Happy Blue!

AB - a good question and one as you know I have been contemplating myself, running a firm of Chartered Surveyors. I think for some types of car it does matter and for others it doesn't.

For instance...You need a large load lugger and decide to get an MPV (say an S-Max) and keep the third row permanently dropped. Does anyone care what you drive - no - because there are no obvious 'premium' alternatives. This is what happened to me.

But you want an estate and turn up in a Mondeo - ooooooh! - a known 'cheap' car; why did you not get a Mercedes?? The only alternative to this is to buy an 'off the wall' brand such as Subaru which no one really recognises (as I also did a few years ago) and it is either a talking point (what's that?) or it is ignored (which is no bad thing either).

An alternative is to run your own car and buy an older but low miles top premium model and get an E350CDi and experience true quality rather than a four cylinder rattle!

HB

Does it matter, really? - Alby Back
S Max not a bad shout actually. Only downside on a personal level would be getting my mountain bikes back up on the high roof when tired, muddy and cold as we are most Sundays. Don't like rear mounted carriers and as for putting them inside, refer to earlier mud comment.

My engine only rattles very discreetly I'll have you know !

;-)
Does it matter, really? - Happy Blue!

A rattle is a rattle to those with trained ears...... ;-)

Does it matter, really? - RT

Most people with any interest in cars know that BMW and Mercedes-Benz are "cheap" because of their excellent residual values so I very much doubt that turning up in an E-class makes it look like you're spending any more money than turning up in an Insignia or Mondeo. If your company is in a premium postion, going downmarket could be a bad move to a few of your customers.

If the E-class suits your needs in other ways, stick with it.

Does it matter, really? - Avant

Reading between the lines, I think you'd love to be back in a Mondeo estate where you were so happy before. And in many ways that's a good image to project - of getting the job done without unnecessary frills but with great comfort and reliabilty.

But RT has a good point - if your business is at the upper end of the market maybe a Mercedes projects a more suitable image. I have to say, though, that if I could afford a Mercedes I'd think I deserved 6 cylinders!

Maybe you could say to lunching clients and the like 'the Mondeo is the only thing short of a van that'll take all the exhibition kit': it somehow looks bigger than an E-class even if it isn't.

I wonder what happened to the Vignale brand that Ford were going to introduce, a la Lexus: if that still happens it could be an answer.

Does it matter, really? - craig-pd130

Interesting one, this. I'm a director in a PR company and from personal experience, many clients are actively suspicious when their PR team arrives in a car that shouts 'money' too loudly. The subconscious reaction is "we're paying these people too much if they can drive around in cars like that."

So we've always stuck to saloons or estates from relatively anonymous, middling brands - VW Passat, Mondeo and Volvo for me, Saab 9-3 and Audi A4 for my MD.

In general, though, I think customers would be more concerned that your car was clean and tidy inside, than about the brand.

If the Merc suits your needs, why change? Of course, the BIK tax is an issue, but you can do a lot there by carefully choosing the engine and spec.

Does it matter, really? - Avant

It's a pity that Saab is no more: Saabs were very good if you didn't want to project too strong an image at all - not too up- or down-market. I suppose Volos and the VW Passat come closest to that now.

When I was in a job where I sometimes took clients in the car, I had a series of big Renaults, two of them 7-seaters, whose only 'projected image' was of the size of my family. But that was before their quality slump (Renault's, not the family's....) in about 2000.

Does it matter, really? - Paul Robinson

According to 'The Middle Class Handbook' a secondhand Lexus RX Hybrid is the new Saab!

Does it matter, really? - Trilogy

How about a classy, cusp of being a classic, Mercedes W124? Good taste car, but doesn't say 'I charge a lot or have lots of money'. The best of these can be had for c. £6,000 to £8,000. Parts are readily available. The money saved compared with buying a car for £10,000 or £15,000 plus, will cover extra fuel consumption. Tyres are cheap at about £65 for a Michelin/Continental. www.w124.co.uk N.B. I have no connection with Nicholas Froome.

Does it matter, really? - gordonbennet

An excellent suggestion Trilogy.

By an amazing coincidence it happens that i have......

:-)

Does it matter, really? - Trilogy

GB, we both have diect experience. Are you really going to sell yours? If so, do you mind me asking how much for?

Does it matter, really? - gordonbennet

Probably, and i want to see at least £5k for it.

Doesn't worry me a bit if i can't find the right buyer, the wrong buyer won't be getting it no matter how much is offered, it is not going to the wrong person (you'll have seen the many ruined wrecked and neglected examples out there)...we've been together too long for that, if necessary we'll enjoy her as a pure summer/mild weather pleasure craft, store over the winters, and wait it out until the right person does come along, the price gradually increasing as she matures like a fine wine..:-)

edit, it has been suggested to me to advertise her on German Ebay, apparently they are very keen on getting these back home for the right reasons.

Edited by gordonbennet on 27/02/2015 at 18:42

Does it matter, really? - bazza

I thik that it is still an influencing factor but perhaps less so than it was. And of course times have changed. Many companies wish to portray a more "caring" softer corporate image - I've seen a number of hybrids on fleets these days. And the image of German models has altered. BMWs are 2 a penny and all look the same, so I doubt they'd attract a second glance. Audis also, plus extra bling actually look a bit tacky these days, especially with those ridiculous 19 or 20 inch rims. But to me at least, a nice big Merc estate in a Merc colour still has a bit of individuality to it, rightly or wrongly, apart from the hideous A and B class. Plus it does actually get the job done in terms of space and long distance workhorse ability. But if it meant me saving a couple of hundred quid a month, I'd drive a Mondeo estate instead, absolutely! Nothing wrong with one of them.

Does it matter, really? - Smileyman

People do look, see, chatter, it's human nature - if you need an estate buy the Jag, or if it's not right for you try the Volvo ... and if you are unsure how the image may turn out then hire one for a month and see what prople say, but don't say it's a hire car until you have your answer

Does it matter, really? - Bianconeri
Doesn't matter at all in my opinion. In fact I use the quirky nature of my chosen daily transport to my and my company's advantage.

Th only people it matters to are the insecure ladder-climbers. Ask the folks who own and run the companies.

If you came to see me ( and I'm not in your business so I don't think it will happen ) I wouldn't have a clue what you drove unless you told me, and than it wouldn't matter a jot unless I thought you were telling me to try to impress me or make some kind of fashion statement.
Does it matter, really? - balleballe

We live in an image concious society. People often seem to think a BMW/MB/Audi projects success

Unless you own the car - I dont understand how it projects success. It's often owned by the lease company. All it proves is that you can afford a few hundred quid a month.....hardly my idea of success but each to their own I suppose

I am the director of my own company and I drive a Mazda. Nobody has an opinion of them either way - which I like.

Does it matter, really? - iFocus

It amazes me that businesses feel the need for their employees to project an image for their high level employees and this extends to cars.

I don't get it, if I was doing business with a company I'd rather do business with one thats not that frivilous.

I couldn't give two hoots if someone turned up in a Mondeo or an Insignia.

I say get what car you want, as at the end of the day its you that drives it and has to put up with it.

I know if I had all the money in the world I'd probably get nothing more than a 3 Series or even a Mondeo...!

Does it matter, really? - Alby Back
Well, thanks for all the replies and as I probably suspected, it seems that some think these things do matter and some don't.

Ultimately, my options are pretty limited anyway, the E Class estate has one of the biggest load spaces going and yet I can regularly fill it and sometimes I also have to add a 600 litre top box too !

Anything smaller wouldn't work for me so the choices ( of cars anyway ) are a fairly short list.

It is surprisingly frugal on tyres and fuel for such a big thing and I'll not deny it is indeed a very pleasant place to spend a long journey so maybe I'm as well sticking with it or indeed a replacement one in due course.

My dog likes it anyway, he gets car sick in my wife's Qashqai but he happily travels in mine !
Does it matter, really? - confusedbuyer

As someone who is in Fashion Buying I can tell you, the higher spec the car, the harder I drive for the bargain from wholesaler.

On a serious note you should get what you want, or consider hybrids - the V60 springs to mind with very little outlay to HMRC.

Does it matter, really? - Alby Back
V60 is a nice car. Too small though unfortunately. Even my current car is sometimes. Probably need ( but don't want ) a van in truth.
Does it matter, really? - Brian Tryzers
We mentioned the Skoda Superb estate in another thread. Properly nice, civilized car, loads of passenger space but ultimate capacity limited by its width. Now there's a new one coming that's supposed to be 50mm (I think) wider, which might make it the equal of the E estate.

I can't imagine even the top model would set you back more than your E250. There may even be a V6 4wd model as there is today.

Another thought: isn't Volvo supposed to be replacing the V70 - which is disappointingly small inside, as well as being a ten-year-old design - with a V90 that can really challenge the E for space?

Back to your original question: no. No, it doesn't matter what you turn up in if it's clean, tidy, seems well maintained. Unflashy is important, but that's more about the details. Huge wheels or flames on the doors would probably risk prompting the same thoughts as a Homer Simpson tie, and that's the real point: you want to look businesslike. Doesn't mean you can't be an individual; you like lighter interiors rather than corporate-issue black. But it's only a car, and it can only say so much.
Does it matter, really? - smallcar

I do find this somewhat alien a concept but working for a London based organisation I don't think I've ever driven to a business meeting. I get the train and taxis or walk or take my brompton with me to cycle the last bit as required. In fact I don't even know if many of my colleagues can drive or own a car. About 30% of our office cycles to work.

When would people out of interest find out what you drove anyhow if its parked in a car park nearby?

I thought the whole Company car thing had waned along with all the status demarcations that went with it.

Does it matter, really? - Happy Blue!

Ah! That foreign country known as London.

In the real world where appointments can be between 1 and 100 miles away with no direct public transport or if there is it takes half the day to get there, or you carry samples with you, a car is vital. Walking around the City or West End with a small expensive briefcase is not what most of us here do.

And sometimes our customers or clients see our cars and even travel in them so impressions do count.

Does it matter, really? - Bromptonaut

Like IL I worked in Central London. Other than possibly to an airport none of my colleagues, living inside M25, drove anywhere for work. Living further out than most I did drive to odd course and once to a meeting at the British Library. But I only did maybe 500 business miles in 11+yrs.

Outside Lonodn and possibly Birmingham and parts of Manchester it's a different story.

Does it matter, really? - hillman

A number of years ago I was working for a British company designing an extension to an existing plant in a chemical complex in Holland. The two teams would fly to site on Monday and back home on Friday. We would pick up hire cars in Brussels and Dusseldorf airports and drive to the plant in Holland. The manager we were working under at the complex, the one who signed our expenses sheets, was a Dutchman who had a classic car as his day to day transport. It was something like a Ford Cortina and he was proud of it. One day I travelled to Brussels with my own manager and when I went to pick up the hire car the staff informed me that they didn’t have a car just then but offered me an upgrade. The usual car was generally a Vauxhall Vectra and they offered me another GM car, a Cadillac. I was doubtful about that but I went to see it in the bottom floor of the multi-storey car-park, several floors below ground level. I demurred and waited an hour until the next return Vectra came in, unvaleted but WTH. I had two reasons,

A. I didn’t think my Dutch manager would take kindly to my swanning up in a Cadillac bigger than the spaces in the company car-park and parking next to his Cortina

B. I very much doubted my ability to drive it out of the airport car-park, several floors up a spiral ramp.

Does it matter, really? - Brian Tryzers
Hard to see how a decision that wasn't yours would be held against you - least of all by a Dutchman, who are typically a pretty relaxed bunch. You could have deflected any comments about the Cadillac with a shrug and a "Look what they gave me at the airport."

Turning up in a scuffed one because it didn't go up the ramp might have been more of a problem, especially if the damage came out of the project budget. I hate those ramps, especially when they're uniform concrete on floor, kerb and wall so it's hard to tell how far away you are. Haven't scraped one yet but...