mgzs - mgzs td diesel pump - frogmarch

hi on my mgzs td iv got a knocking noise comeing from top off engine , was told this was timing solenoid on pump so got one from scrappy fitted it but still the same , could it be injectors or manifolds thanks

mgzs - mgzs td diesel pump - Railroad.
Could be excessive diesel knock caused by either a worn or hosing injector, or over-advanced pump timing.
mgzs - mgzs td diesel pump - frogmarch

thanks rail road , i thought i had timing spot on but will try to get timing pins for it and recheck and im going to see diesel specialist during week to see if he can diagnose it , if it was injector would it use more diesel thanks also if it was diesel knock would it do it when you rev engine as mine does not

al

Edited by frogmarch on 30/11/2014 at 19:19

mgzs - mgzs td diesel pump - Railroad.
Remember that even the slightest adjustment to pump timing will make a big difference, so it won't have to be very far advanced at all for the engine to suffer diesel knock. It must be the first thing for you to check.
mgzs - mgzs td diesel pump - frogmarch

hi thanks for replies still waiting for pins but i think i would recheck timing

mgzs - mgzs td diesel pump - frogmarch

hi reference to my thread i was told to give it a good thrashing so last night i did just that and knocking sound went but its now started to come back could it be hydraulic lifter and apart fron renewing is there any addtives to put in thanks

mgzs - mgzs td diesel pump - frogmarch

i have give it a good thrashing but still the same , if it was injector making it knock would putting some cleaner through it do any good . i would like to try to get hold of some injectors just to try

mgzs - mgzs td diesel pump - frogmarch

hi i have checked timing and seems to be spot on i have noticed that no1 injector wire is frayed a bit near injector body i will take it out and have a look can you test wiring and how thanks

mgzs - mgzs td diesel pump - frogmarch

hi with reference to my last thread iv checked timing and is ok checked wiring to no1 injector and it is showing 95.6 ohms but been told to test to earth do i still keep it on ohms setting and what is reading suppose to be thanks

mgzs - mgzs td diesel pump - dieselnut

The winding should be isolated from earth ( chassis ).

Connect one meter prod to one of the winding conexions & the other prod to earth.

The meter should read infinity.

mgzs - mgzs td diesel pump - frogmarch

hi sorry to sound thick but what is infinity as not very good with electrics thanks and merry christmas

mgzs - mgzs td diesel pump - dieselnut

For infinity :-

If it's an old type meter with a needle, the needle shouldn't move.

If its a digital type it should show the same as if the prods arn't connected to anything.

mgzs - mgzs td diesel pump - frogmarch

thanks for reply its digital multmeter will have a look saturday , so if it does not show anything then wire is ok is that right

mgzs - mgzs td diesel pump - dieselnut

Yes, no leakage to earth.

mgzs - mgzs td diesel pump - frogmarch

thanks dieselnut done earth test today and as far as i could deduce there was no reading but another thing is can you do leakoff test on L series engine also is there suppose to be alot of diesel leaking back

mgzs - mgzs td diesel pump - dieselnut

These are not high pressure injectors ala common rail, so I wouldn't think leakoff was a factor, but if you check each of them the leakoff should be about the same.

There should be a ' start of injection coil ' around one injector ( like the left one of these 4 on eBay ) www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MG-ZS-ZR-ROVER-25-45-L-SERIES-2...7, you could check that the coil is giving a resistance showing it is intact, probably less than 1000 ohms.

Your symtoms do sound like a faulty injector.

Edited by dieselnut on 27/12/2014 at 23:48

mgzs - mgzs td diesel pump - frogmarch

yh thanks dieselnut i have been told it could be injectors i will have to get them checked at diesel specialist dont know anything else it could be

mgzs - mgzs td diesel pump - frogmarch

with reference to my last thread would putting some cleaner through make any difference or would loosening pipe nut of tell me what injector it was thanks as i have done this but there was no difference

mgzs - mgzs td diesel pump - Railroad.
If an injector nozzle was partially blocked then a fuel cleaner may help. If the nozzle is worn then it will not. A diesel specialst will be able to test the injectors for spray pattern and pressure. If your injectors are worn you'll notice the improvement in performance and drivability after you fit new ones.
mgzs - mgzs td diesel pump - frogmarch

hi i borrowd leakback tester to try and it shoed number 3 bottle had diesel in and rest didnt should i take them to specialist to be checked properly thanks

mgzs - mgzs td diesel pump - frogmarch

hi just took injectors out but number 3 is stuck solid , the rest came out ok , tryed twisting it but wont budge and have not got puller

mgzs - mgzs td diesel pump - ScoBro

Pour some coke around it (Coca cola) around the injector and leave it for a bit. If its corroded it might help eat away at any corrosion.

Could try putting a pair of stilsons or molegrips and giving it a twist, might help ease it out. Outwise it will mean taking the top of the injector off and fitting a puller to it.

mgzs - mgzs td diesel pump - frogmarch

thanks scobro but have got grips on it and gave it a good twist and it started to move and came out but think copper washers are stuck in as only two have come out and tryed small pick but doesnt seem to budge

mgzs - mgzs td diesel pump - elekie&a/c doctor

Probaly need a tool similar to this for removal;www.lasertools.co.uk/news.aspx?article=578

mgzs - mgzs td diesel pump - frogmarch

hi thanks for reply yh probably do but cannot afford some thing like that i got some long picks but still cannot get them out even if they are in there when i shone torch down they didnt look like they were in there

mgzs - mgzs td diesel pump - Railroad.
So are they in there or not? I've removed them using a round file many times. Drop the file in the hole and turn it to grip the washer. I've never yet had one fail to come out. Sometimes the copper washers come out with the injectors. It's best to renew them, but it isn't the end of the world if you don't as long as they are in there.

Edited by Railroad. on 03/01/2015 at 17:30

mgzs - mgzs td diesel pump - frogmarch

hi i dont think they are as i shone torch and could not see copper down there but will get file and see on monday

mgzs - mgzs td diesel pump - frogmarch

hi had injectors tested and he said they are all ok so there was no seals in 2 of the injectors holes so would it be some of the problem and do they make that much difference thanks

mgzs - mgzs td diesel pump - Railroad.
Yes it could make a difference. The washers are about 3mm thick, and so without them the injectors would sit that much lower and therefore closer to the piston. It's a direct injection engine, and so the fuel may not atomise in quite the same way as it would if the injector was correctly positioned. The washers didn't jump out by themselves though, and it's extremely doubtful that the manufacturer omitted them. Work on the injectors must've been carried out before.
mgzs - mgzs td diesel pump - frogmarch

thanks railroad i dont know about previous work on car but will put back together and see what happens tomorrow just hope it improves

mgzs - mgzs td diesel pump - frogmarch

hi have put back together and still the same

mgzs - mgzs td diesel pump - Railroad.
Back to the beginning. Is this a common rail or does it have a conventional timed diesel fuel pump with mechanical injectors?
mgzs - mgzs td diesel pump - frogmarch

hi railroad its mechanical injectors with electronic pump , bloke said that injectors were fine , i have changed timing solenoid but do not know if it was any good as came from scrappy is there a test you can do to this also when you rev car the engine quietens down

mgzs - mgzs td diesel pump - Railroad.
Even though it has electronic diesel control (EDC) the pump is still timed to the engine and the base pump setting must be correct. The ECM will adjust the pump timing to suit the need. It takes information from the crankshaft sensor, temperature sensor and the needle lift sensor which must be fitted on No.3 injector. I have seen them on the wrong injector, and if it is the engine will not run correctly. Be sure to re-check the pump timing to ensure it's correct. I am assuming that your noise is fuel related. Is the noise all over the engine or just on one cylinder? Just beware that the fuel injection pressure is still quite high with EDC, and although not as high as a common rail system you must still remember that it's potentially dangerous to slacken the injector pipes with the engine running.
mgzs - mgzs td diesel pump - frogmarch

hi railroad did you say that the injector with wire must be fitted to number 3 injector and what difference does it make

mgzs - mgzs td diesel pump - frogmarch

hi i always thought they were meant to be on number 1 injector and will it make any difference

mgzs - mgzs td diesel pump - frogmarch

hi railroad the noise seems to come from no3and 4 cylinder

mgzs - mgzs td diesel pump - Railroad.
Every needle lift sensor I've ever seen is fitted on No.3 injector. If yours is different I'd be interested to know. The sensor tells the ECM injection has occurred. If the sensor was fitted to the wrong injector the system would be mis-timed and the engine would not run properly.
mgzs - mgzs td diesel pump - frogmarch

thanks for reply but it was on number 1 injector when i bought car , would it do any harm to try it on number 3 as dont want to b***** engine up, every one else says n01 , i think injectors have been out before i bought it as no washers in ,

mgzs - mgzs td diesel pump - Railroad.
I would've thought that the position of the wiring harness would give a good indication of where the needle lift sensor is supposed to be fitted. As I said, I've only ever found them fitted on No.3 injector, but if they're fitted on No.1 on your engine then so be it. I've just never come across it. It would mean that the engine management system on your car is a different program to that on others, and I would've thought that to be unusual. If it's meant to fitted on No.1 then keep it on No.1. Moving it will completely upset the engine running and will most likely put the MIL on.
mgzs - mgzs td diesel pump - frogmarch

hi thanks railroad the wire is tight when in bracket but have put video on of engine running

youtu.be/j9BZLQJtrrQ

mgzs - mgzs td diesel pump - frogmarch

hi railroad like i said wire is tight and would swapping injector over to no3 for a try do any harm

mgzs - mgzs td diesel pump - Railroad.
No it won't do any harm. The worst that'll happen is the engine will run rough and the MIL will illuminate. In this case swap the needle lift sensor back to where it was. I must say I'm a bit intrigued because I've only ever seen them fitted on No.3.
mgzs - mgzs td diesel pump - Railroad.
I've just watched the video and I can't really tell where that noise is coming from other than to say it sounds rotational, and too light to be diesel knock, and not excessive valve noise either. I noticed the engine did stutter a couple of times. Did you do anything to cause that? If not air could be getting into the fuel system before the pump. Has this noise only recently occurred or has it existed for a while?
mgzs - mgzs td diesel pump - frogmarch

thanks railroad the stutter was the video not the engine as it ticks over and i have only had car since september and noise has been there all that time do you think it timing solenoid , i dont like to use car in case it causes more damage and wire you said you have seen for lifter sensor were they on rovers and mg thanks

Edited by frogmarch on 12/01/2015 at 12:32

mgzs - mgzs td diesel pump - frogmarch

hi with reference to my thread about engine knocking been told it could be timing to advanced does any one know how to adjust it thanks