Citroen C1 - Cat C - any way to ascertain the damage? - machineage

Hi all

I have seen a 2012 Citroen C1 which is Cat C. The owner states he carried out the repairs (new o/s rear door & repair to o/s rear wheel arch). He has the VIC.

I asked if he had any pictires of the damage - he says no. So I wondered is it possible to find out what damage the car sustained? Would the insurance company dealing with the claim divulge such information - or would any other body hold the information?

I also have a question re: the insurance. I recall reading somehere that the rules have changed for insurance companies - and if they don't ask the question - then it is their fault if they find out later that it was a Cat C. To follow this up I called Aviva asking what their stance was. They said they would insure a Cat C - so long as I would supply a letter / email to the underwriters from a qualified independant body (ie Citroen dealer) stating the repairs were satisfactory and the car was roadworthy. They suggested any future write off claim payout would be around 25% less than market value (no probelm there as the car is for sale at less than -25% market value).

Thanks!

Edited by machineage on 06/11/2014 at 18:12

Citroen C1 - Cat C - any way to ascertain the damage? - RobJP

If the car has been inspected and given a VIC, then it has been repaired to an adequate standard to be put back on the road. Insurance companies won't give you any info (they will cite data protection, customer confidentiality, and even commercial sensitivity to block you), and you've no RIGHT to see the information anyway.

Basically, it's a cat C. You have to make a judgement call, as to whether you trust the vendor, and the documentation he supplies, and balance that against the (hopefully) big discount as compared to a car that is not on the register.

Citroen C1 - Cat C - any way to ascertain the damage? - machineage

Thanks RobJP

I thought the VIC was just to check the cars identity and not the quality or otherwise of the repairs?

Essentially a potential buyer could therefore be told any old baloney by the seller - relating to the actual damage / repair or not.

Hmmm...

Edited by machineage on 06/11/2014 at 20:15

Citroen C1 - Cat C - any way to ascertain the damage? - RobJP

Yes, The VIC is to ascertain that the car which is being put back on the road is the same car as was given a cat D/C marker, for the marker to be taken off.

However, in practice, the car is given a decent 'once-over' look by the people inspecting it, and whether or not a car has an MOT, they can issue a prohibition notice on the car if they aren't happy.

As I said, it comes down to trust, and the drop in price compared to a 'standard' car. You throw the dice, or you walk away.

Citroen C1 - Cat C - any way to ascertain the damage? - Simon

I have never seen a VIC check where the car I given the 'once over'. I have only ever known them to check the chassis number is correct, and that is often a cursory glance.

Citroen C1 - Cat C - any way to ascertain the damage? - machineage

Thanks guys...

I am walking cautiously with this as the seller appears to be somehat evasive at the moment.

Now then - this may need a new thread - but I will ask here anyway and create a new thread if you think it necessary. I thought I would have a look at car auctions - and I have just been completely stunned by what I found on Manheim's site - I thought I was hallucinating!

They have hundreds (I do not exagerate!) of C1's - all in the spec I am looking for - and all due to be sold over the coming days. And the vendor? Citroen UK?!!

Does anyone know what the score is here? Why would Citroen UK be auctioning off so many 2012 year C1 VTR & Connexion spec cars with low mileage (averaging 15k)?

Edited by machineage on 07/11/2014 at 03:21

Citroen C1 - Cat C - any way to ascertain the damage? - daveyjp

They may be ex hire fleet and they could also be PCP finance returns.

Citroen C1 - Cat C - any way to ascertain the damage? - Ordovices

I recovered a Cat C write off, the VIC was entirely to do with identity.

Small amounts of paint were removed from (hidden) areas, and chassis numbers matched. The whole process took around 40 minutes.

Unless things have changed you don't require a VIC for a Cat D.

Depending on the value (cost) of the car, would a RAC check be cost effective?

Citroen C1 - Cat C - any way to ascertain the damage? - Wackyracer

About 5 years ago a friend of mine drove his cat C car straight for a VIC check without doing any of the repairs. They just made sure that the car was the original car and that was it.

Like has been said, If in doubt don't buy it. There are many C1's for sale and they are not such an expensive car to start with.

Auctions can be a good place to buy a vehicle.

Citroen C1 - Cat C - any way to ascertain the damage? - Avant

Run a mile from the evasive seller with his Cat C C1 and go for one of the C1s at auction if they're the right spec for you.

Citroen C1 - Cat C - any way to ascertain the damage? - injection doc

I agree with Avant 110% Walk away. There are plenty of C1's without buying one with a mark against it !

Citroen C1 - Cat C - any way to ascertain the damage? - Galaxy

If you're not confident (or competent) to assess the damage and associated circumstances of a Cat C then I would say you shouldn't be going down that road, anyway. From what you say you obviously have concerns about Cat C, so it'sa time to walk away and look elsewhere.

Citroen C1 - Cat C - any way to ascertain the damage? - machineage

Thanks all

Yes I quite agree - too many pitfalls for someone like myself re: Cat C / D.

I'll take myself along to Manheim instead :)

Citroen C1 - Cat C - any way to ascertain the damage? - Advocate

I think, in this case, you are right to walk away.

Cat C and D can be cracking opportunities for a bargain car (I know - I have one - see below), but the person who repaired the car should have no reason to be evasive.

Cat C and D cars are perfectly ripe for repair and being put back on the road - if the job has been done properly. There are many cars on the road which have suffered significant damage but which has been put right following an insurance claim; my sister-in-law's 1-year old Peugeot RCZ is a prime example. It suffered significant damage down most of one side when someone pulled on to the roundabout she was already on!

Obviously, her's was a 'proper' insurance-paid body-shop repair, and the car is now absolutely as good as new.

However, when the cost balance is reached when an insurance company wants to cut its losses and just pay out and dispose of the car, then the damaged car can be bought and repaired by anybody.

And, unless the repairer is happy to provide all the evidence you want, you are right to be suspicious. I mean, if they really did a 'pro' job, what do they have to hide?

Yes, the VIC check is just to confirm the identity of the car - nothing more.

Most insurance companies are happy to insure a repaired Cat C or D car provided it has had an MOT since the repair. Some might also ask for an independent examinaition, such as that provided by the RAC or AA.

So, what do you do if you are considering a Cat C or D car? Tread carefully :-)

Ask every question you need to, ideally by email. Even a private seller must tell the truth if asked, and an email will be a record of this. So, if you ask for full details of the repair, and things like "was any suspension component affected", and he replies 'nope', then you CAN sue him if you find out afterwards he told a lie.

So, ask, ask, ask. If you sense evasiveness - don't get full answers - then walk away.

Other options are; if the car looks really good to you, and you are REALLY keen on it - and are certain you can agree a purchase price - then you may feel it worth getting the AA or RAC (or others) to inspect it before purchase. This will cost around £150, and you need to consider it might be wasted money if they then report "don't touch it!".

Ok, my recent situation as an example. I found a repaired Citroen C3 Picasso on an eBay auction which was supposedly repaired by the current owner, a self-employed body-repairer. I asked all the questions I felt necessary - what was the exact damage? Were any suspension components affected? Are there any obvious signs still remaining from the accident? Any mechanical issues? Etc.

Ok, the answers weren't exactly full, but they did provide enough info for me to make a low bid - and so I ended up with a 20k mile, 2011 special-edition diesel Picasso for less than £4k. That's around half the 'normal' price.

What's the car like? Well, the most important thing for me is that it drives like a new car and is generally 'as-new' inside and out. Can you tell it's been repaired? Yep! But not too easily; the replaced driver's door makes an extra 'clunk' as you open it. The headlining has a small repaired cut where the side air bag deployed, and some of the interior plastic trim pieces have been re-secured using screws rather than buying new ones with intact clips. The paint job down the side is easily good enough to pass without comment, and there are no other obvious indicators of the repair either.

So, I am happy :-)

The car is repaired well enough, but obviously not as well as my sis's RCZ! An insurance-paid repair to my car would have it sporting a completely new headlining, new interior trim pieces, 2 NEW doors (as opposed to the '2nd-hand' ones my repairer used and resprayed), etc etc. And that is what you can expect with a non-insurance paid Cat C and D repair. That's fair enough to me.

Had my car turned out to have had 'structural' or suspension damage, I would have sued the seller, no question. And I am certain I would have won, as I made him declare - very clearly - that there had only been panel damage.

So, ask, ask, ask. And record, record, record.

For just a 25% saving over a 'normal' car, I think I would want proper evidence from the seller of the damage and the repairs carried out, possibly with some sort of warranty. And I would expect a top-notch repair too. But I was happy to accept some minor cosmetic compromises for what turned out to be a nigh-on 50% saving.

Edited by Advocate on 10/11/2014 at 20:16