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Very negative result for Honda on that test, I had been planning to replace our ageing 4wd L200 pickup with a nearly new CRV. Where we park it is on a slope, in winter it's iced over after light snow so need 4wd to get up onto the road. The L200 just goes anywhere in 4wd high or low on ordinary road tyres, mud, snow,ice, fields, gravel tracks, woods, it's just crude old mechanical 4wd that locks all four wheels together.
So now it's either a pre-2012 CRV or look for something else, or keep the L200!
Thanks for posting that.
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A T31 xtrail has always had a better 4wd system than a CRV or the Mazda CX-5 i now have.
You will not get stuck with standard rubber with an xtrail, well i didnt over the 9 years i had two.
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You will not get stuck with standard rubber with an xtrail, well i didnt over the 9 years i had two.
The tyre has nothing to do with it!
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You will not get stuck with standard rubber with an xtrail, well i didnt over the 9 years i had two.
The tyre has nothing to do with it!
What, nothing at all?
Well I'm amazed. Truly amazed.
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Tyres have a lot to do with it. I've heard plenty of stories of RWD cars with winter tyres faring better in snow and ice than 4x4s with summer tyres.
I've had FWD cars since 1970 and all were fine on snow with 'normal' tyres until I got an Octavia vRS with low-profile tyres: these were useless in snow and I now have winter tyres. They're sitting in the garage and it'll soon be time to get them on.
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You will not get stuck with standard rubber with an xtrail, well i didnt over the 9 years i had two.
The tyre has nothing to do with it!
What, nothing at all?
Well I'm amazed. Truly amazed.
Sorry I missread your post,I missed the xtrail, I thought you was reffering to the crv test
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Well maybe it tried to"set off in 4wd" quickly calculated that there was 0 front wheel traction and removed all drive to the rear to protect the made-of-cheese rear drivetrain?
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Well maybe it tried to"set off in 4wd" quickly calculated that there was 0 front wheel traction and removed all drive to the rear to protect the made-of-cheese rear drivetrain?
I could be wrong here,but I`m under the impression 4 wheel drive on it like VSA is switchable,but its real time traction control all in one system, I dont know how they did the test I think the test should be redone to use VSA off and on
As I mentioned before there are advantages in switching system off as well as having it on!. some people have problems with it others dont
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As I mentioned before there are advantages in switching system off as well as having it on!. some people have problems with it others dont
I agree with your thinking Bolt and would like to see if someone competent could coax said CRV into doing what it should do.
In lorry world, as soon as traction becomes an issue, traction control is the very first thing i turn off (plus transfer as much weight as possible to the drive axle, by trickery if necessary), no faster way to come to a standstill on slippery ground than to leave the electronics to it.
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Agree the traction control in our Mercedes lorries is a nuicence in slipery weather it just cuts in all the time.
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I'm geeting really confused with this CRV situation. In addition to the Swedish test I have seen another video of a CRV being beasted off road in Russia and it bogged down in sand with no drive to the rear wheels.
On the other hand I have watched loads of video's of 2014 CRV's off -roading where the rear wheels do give traction.
Just what the hell is going on?
Have Honda UK had anything sensible to say on the matter, seeing as how they advertise the CRV as having 4WD?
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I'm geeting really confused with this CRV situation. In addition to the Swedish test I have seen another video of a CRV being beasted off road in Russia and it bogged down in sand with no drive to the rear wheels.
On the other hand I have watched loads of video's of 2014 CRV's off -roading where the rear wheels do give traction.
Just what the hell is going on?
Have Honda UK had anything sensible to say on the matter, seeing as how they advertise the CRV as having 4WD?
So am I confused, as the system is meant to be very sensitive to wheel slip, so it looks like they have some software correction to do
Bogged down in sand will give the system the same impresion it did on those runners, Had there been a resistance on wheel slip 4 wheel drive should have kicked in but didnt
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I emailed Honda customer service in the UK and asked them what was going on, here is their reply to me today-
Dear Mr. ******,
Thank you for contacting Honda UK.
There are CR-V models that are equipped with 4WD and models that are not.
I took the liberty of sending electronic copy of the brochure for the new CR-V to your email address.
In the brochure you can see witch models are equipped with 4WD and witch are not.
Additionally the car's smart 4WD system allows the function to operate only when it is needed witch greatly reduces the fuel consumption of the vehicle.
Thank you for contacting Honda. If we can be of any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us again.
Kind Regards,
Tomislav Dimitrov
Honda Customer Services.
I thp
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A Bewitching reply. Actually an utterly pointless and exceedingly disappointing reply.
I'll check in Witch? magazine but suspect we knew that some were 2 and some 4 wheel drive and that the 4wd system cut in as and when needed. As email replies WHICH don't answer the question asked go this one's up there with the best.
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Yes- a strange reply to an intelligent question wasn't it?
I have replied to the email asking for clarification and an explanation.
Is there any possibility that HJ himself could prod the sleeping Honda bear, wake it up and get some sort of sensible answer?
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Yes, that reply was about as much use as a politicians 3 hour fully expensed waffle, told us precisely nothing.
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Maybe they havent had enough complaints yet, IIRC the reaction was similar to last year when it needed a software update to correct the problem?
Not so sure its as simple as that this time....
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Shame, as I honestly thought you could rely on Honda to respond a tad more sensibly and with a hint of common sense and, maybe, a bit more accuracy and a practical, helpful attitude. The bloke who replied on this occasion really shouldn't be let loose on the public given his obvious absence of accurate spelling ability and, more importantly, his inabiliity to provide even an apology for not knowing the answer or offering to attempt to find the answer. He does Honda a considerable disservice.
You'd expect it from TalkTalk but not from Honda.
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I'd guess Tomislav is of Bulgarian descent so I think we can, at least, forgive spelling mistakes!
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I'd guess Tomislav is of Bulgarian descent so I think we can, at least, forgive spelling mistakes!
Ideal first/front line customer contact then.
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The latest reply is here:-
Dear Mr. ******,
Thank you for contacting Honda (UK).
I am giving you the official answer of our Honda Sweden representative in regards to the video you gave me link for.
The video itself was opriginally posted on:
http://teknikensvarld.se/honda-cr-v-4wd-system-is-not-working-again-163708/
You can also find the answer I included, below the video on the site itself.
"The Honda AWD system uses a compact, lightweight and fuel-efficient rear differential. The design requires a certain torque limitation for the device to be able to work effectively in real conditions, but at the same time, it must not exceed the total capacity of the AWD drive.
In real conditions, regardless of the surface, there is a certain amount of friction always available for both front and rear wheels. The AWD system benefits therefore torque between front and rear wheels in order to achieve optimal driving force.
In the roll test non-existent grip is simulated in the front and maximum grip at the rear.
If all the available torque required to move the vehicle forward would be transferred to the rear differential then the limit for the torque of the unit would be exceeded.
If the vehicle continues to run in this state (the front wheels spinning and the rear wheels standing still) the system senses the high speed variation and that the differential clutch slips and reduces the available torque to the rear wheels to prevent overheating. That is why the vehicle moves backward in the video.
In real conditions a scenario like the roll test with such a high difference in grip between the front and the rear wheels is highly unlikely.
In other words Honda does not see that the roll test fairly highlights CR-V's AWD performance. Teknikens VÃrld has done a winter test where CR-V was tested on icy roads, as well as steep paths such as a ski slope.
Honda believes that these tests in real environments should be enough to show that the CR-V is a great winter car and would like to stress that there are no known customer complaints on the CR-V's traction from the Swedish market or in other markets with similar conditions.
On Teknikens VÃrld's question whether the update is made, we can with measuring instruments upon request show that for both customers and media.
Since it is important for Honda that customers feel safe and have confidence in ourselves we did an update of the software of all CR-Vs for the Swedish market.
CR-V customers were able to get the software, free of charge, updated at our dealers from April 15 and in production from July 8 in 2013.
Honda CR-V is a global car and has sold over 5 million copies. It is the world's best-selling SUV* and the sales in Europe is growing steadily, 6 percent in comparison with last year. The CR-V therefore has many satisfied customers around the world.
Maria Johansson, head of communications
* First quarter 2014"
Thank you for contacting Honda. If we can be of any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us again.
Kind Regards,
Tomislav Dimitrov
Honda Customer Service
Honda Uk.
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Not just Honda though, Fiat have been in the news with the 500 that wont pull up hills, and they denied any problem,
it was on watchdog, even the ex stig could not get it to climb hills so I really dont know where customer service are going now
Apparently the 1.2 engine 2014 version was retuned to Euro 6 emissions
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I think I'll just go buy a Mitsubishi Outlander instead- at least their 4WD system is honest and straightforward - select "lock" and it locks all four wheels together.
Was working on a mate's Outlander yesterday, sorting out a rat's nest of wiring where some idiot of a 4x4 garage had wired up towing electrics that flatten the battery if left for 2-3 days without the car being used- he reckons ithe car is ok, has done 60k it it with no problems.
Memo to Honda:-
Your problem as a company is that you try to get too clever and then your cleverness is discovered to be deceit and evasion when it doesn't work.
Don't get me wrong-I like Honda products, I've worked with them for a long time and I would love a CRV, but I cannot buy a product that does not do what it says on the tin.
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In real world driving with an Xtrail, well two xtrails, lock was never required.
I always drove with auto selected.
My Mazda 4wd is somthing like the Crv system although i have no control over it, no selector, no lock, its performed as expected, towed a caravan off a very wet CL site on grass. But the front wheels have to loose some traction before the system cuts in.
Its not as sensitive or advanced as the xtrail, but still works in real life conditions. I believe what Honda have said, very few part time 4wd systems can put all the power to the rear wheels if normally fwd, usually its 50/50.
As Honda say no customer complaints=no problem.
No i do not have a Honda, and havent had one since the first Accord came into the country, i had one of the very first cars, which was at the time ten years in front of my Cortina, shame it was a rust box.
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The Honda system is similar to teh Toyota one, which is similar to the Fiat Panda one, which is similar to what most makers fit.
If you want a proper 4x4 with permanent drive to all wheels, buy a 4wd Land Rover##, Nissan X Trail Mitsubishi or Subaru...
### deep pockets needed for maintenance and repairs.
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The Xtrails don't have permanent 4wd, nor can you use Lock on tarmac with out risking damage. And prolonged use will cause the 4wd system to overheat.
Some Audi quattro drives are permanent, my 2000 model was, same with BMW X3.
Even the proper 4x4 you mention LR can still get stuck of road with wheels spinning, it wasn't that long back a farmer was slagging his because he had lost traction to one side and the LR was going nowhere.
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Even the proper 4x4 you mention LR can still get stuck of road with wheels spinning, it wasn't that long back a farmer was slagging his because he had lost traction to one side and the LR was going nowhere.
Landrovers don't have locking diffs although you can buy the kits for them.
The Mercedes G Wagon had them, even my 90 Quattro had locking diffs for the centre and back differentials via an air operated system that you could hear (hiss, clonk) as you switched them in, and you could see that they were operating via a small pictogram on the centre console.
tinyurl.com/nrah652
Overkill I suppose, but Audi were very proud of their quattro system and rightly so. I had to drive uphill out of a field entrance with wet clay for mud and never got stuck. The later quattros had a torsen system that came in automatically when detecting slip.
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Good old Grand Vitara 5 door is permanent 4 wheel drive too.
It is an honest car if a tad agricultural.
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Talking of diff locks I used the one on the lorry for the first time today and it got me out of a spot of bother.
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The Honda system is similar to teh Toyota one, which is similar to the Fiat Panda one, which is similar to what most makers fit.
If you want a proper 4x4 with permanent drive to all wheels, buy a 4wd Land Rover##, Nissan X Trail Mitsubishi or Subaru...
### deep pockets needed for maintenance and repairs.
Not in my experience.
Bought a 1-year old landcruiser in 2008 for £24k. Just been offered nearly £15k by we buy any car. Average service cost was about £300 incl MOT.
It's needed just one repair in that time - an aircon pipe.
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The Honda system is similar to teh Toyota one, which is similar to the Fiat Panda one, which is similar to what most makers fit.
If you want a proper 4x4 with permanent drive to all wheels, buy a 4wd Land Rover##, Nissan X Trail Mitsubishi or Subaru...
### deep pockets needed for maintenance and repairs.
Not in my experience.
Bought a 1-year old landcruiser in 2008 for £24k. Just been offered nearly £15k by we buy any car. Average service cost was about £300 incl MOT.
It's needed just one repair in that time - an aircon pipe.
A Landcruiser is NOT a LandRover.
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