Identifying a driver

Honest John Back Room » Legal matters
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Thu 15 May 2014 14:55
Identifying a driver - daleannable

Hi, I have recieved a second request (of which I did not recieve a first request) to identify a driver for a speeding offence of a car registered in my name. The problem is, because I did not recieve a first request it is now 6 weeks since the incident and we cannot remember who was driving. My wife is also insured on the car and we both use it regularly. The photo evidence just shows the back of the car and it does not help to identify the driver as you can only see the headrest . We were both off work on the day in question of which we can provide proof. I have responded stating I do not know which is not a suitable answer and they have responded asking me to consider who is insured and who is likely to be driving which doesnt help. I now do not know what to do and how to respond. Any help would be greatfully recieved.

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Thu 15 May 2014 16:07
Identifying a driver - FP

Which? suggests the following:

"You should do all you can to find out the name of the driver, for example, by checking bank statements, phone bills and receipts to try to place the possible drivers at the time of the speeding offence....

"Some police forces allow drivers to write informally to the Central Ticket Office with a full detailed account of why they can't give the information and what they have done to try to find out.

"If yours doesn't, or your informal appeal is rejected, in most cases you will need to attend a court hearing where you would have to satisfy the magistrate that you have acted with ‘reasonable diligence’ to find out who the driver was at the time of the speeding offence."

If you are not believed to have carried out due diligence, then you face a maximum fine of £1,000; six penalty points or a driving disqualification.

To maximise your chances in this defence, you will need to employ a solicitor experienced in this aspect of traffic law, but you risk adding the cost to the legal penalties. Some people, it seems, do get let off in these circumstances.

Alternatively, you can do what probably hundreds of couples do - just nominate one of you.

I am not advising which route you should take - it's up to you.

Edited by FP on 15/05/2014 at 16:09

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Thu 15 May 2014 16:15
Identifying a driver - Dwight Van Driver

There is a strict obligation under Section 172 Road Traffic Act 1988 following an offence of speeding for the Reg. Keeper, once served with the appropriate form, to give such information as to the identtiy of the driver at the time of the offence.

Failure to do so within 28 days is an offence unless he shows that he did not know and could not without reasonable diligence have ascertained who the driver of the vehicle was. The authorities seem to take a strict view on this and process the matter to a Court where it will be up to the defendant to convince the Magistrates he did not know.

Problem in this case there appears to one of two drivers and whilst the explanatiuon may be correct, it was been used that many times that the Bench believe it less and less.

dvd

Edited by Dwight Van Driver on 15/05/2014 at 16:18

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Thu 15 May 2014 16:29
Identifying a driver - galileo

there appears to one of two drivers and whilst the explanatiuon may be correct, it was been used that many times that the Bench believe it less and less.

Mr & Mrs Huhne, for example!

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Thu 15 May 2014 16:47
Identifying a driver - FP

"Mr & Mrs Huhne, for example!"

As I understand it, that was a different offence. It was not that the registered owner was unable/refused to name the driver, but that the couple both knew who the driver in question was (Huhne), but named the other (the lady wife). Hence it was perverting the course of justice, a much more serious offence.

However, as was said at the time, probably many - less prominent - couples have done the same .

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Fri 16 May 2014 01:12
Identifying a driver - Avant

If you really don't know who was driving, the pragmatic course would be for whichever of you has fewer points on the licent to take these points. If you're both clear or have equal points, then maybe the one who does the lower annual mileage should bite the bullet.

In the last resort - maybe chivalry is not yet dead....

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Sat 17 May 2014 16:48
Identifying a driver - Peter D
Not only is the OP heading for 6 points and a circa £600 fine but his insurance will take a serious hike for 5 years as they do not like MS90 offences as it does not reveal the offence.
You know the location and the time of the alleged offence do can you work out who was driving. Depending on the speed involved you may be swopping a Speed Awareness Course and no points for 6 points and £600.
Taking it to court is very risky indeed. Regards Peter
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Sun 18 May 2014 16:52
Identifying a driver - daleannable

Thanks for the replies. We genuinely do not know who the driver was. What would the worse case scenario be by taking it to court?

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Sun 18 May 2014 17:54
Identifying a driver - Bromptonaut

Thanks for the replies. We genuinely do not know who the driver was. What would the worse case scenario be by taking it to court?

Your problem is that a lot of people have 'tried it on' in this sort of way. The court, comprised presumably of lay magistrates, is likley to be skeptical and set the bar pretty high -see DVD above.

As FP says there are a number of ways you might be able to narrow it down, starting with day/time and why you mght have been on route where you were snapped. It's not enough to just think it could have been either, you need a proper joint 'brainstorm' as to all reasons why either of you might have been there.

Did one of you have medical appointment or some work/professional committment. Which of your friends etc you might have been visiting live that way. Do you have receipts for shopping? They might be a memory jogger or, by showing who's card was used, provide a conclusive lead.

The risk is the court will not beleive you, in which case 6 points and a large fine for the RK (with consequent insurance hike) are likely outcome.

It may of course be that you're still not conclusive but 'on balance of probability' you think it's more likely one than the other. In such a case nominating the more likely driver would not put you at risk of a 'perverting the course charge' in Huhne model. Be wary though of trying to be 'pragmatic' about who has most points - if one of you is already on cusp of a totting up disqual that might be evidence of conspiracy.

OTOH if you've both got clean licenses and were only slightly over limit then you might get away with a course. All reports are that, provided you go with anopen mind, these are actually both interesting and useful.

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Sun 18 May 2014 20:54
Identifying a driver - martint123

The local rag seems to report 6 points, 600 quid + costs + victim surcharge is the norm

www.hulldailymail.co.uk/Hull-court-listings-senten...l

The snag is that the offence is simply failing to identify the driver.

Maybe it's time for the keeper of a vehicle to take responsibility and keep a log book of when he lets others drive his vehicle.

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Sun 18 May 2014 21:06
Identifying a driver - FP

"What would the worse case scenario be by taking it to court?"

Not sure how well you read the replies!

The worst case scenario is you lose and are convicted of failure to name the driver. This will happen if your defence of trying really hard, but still being unable to ascertain who was driving, is not believed. As far as I know, this is the ONLY defence open to you. Apparently, it sometimes succeeds, but I would assume you need to employ a really good lawyer and I understand courts are getting very sceptical of what may seem an easy way out.

As I said above, if you are not believed to have carried out due diligence, then you face a maximum fine of £1,000; six penalty points or a driving disqualification.

And possibly a hefty legal bill if you employed a lawyer.

That is my understanding. I am not a lawyer and rely on research, not personal experience.

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Mon 19 May 2014 16:25
Identifying a driver - Peter D
If this was a Camera Van Ping then there will be a video. Write to them and ask for copies of any pictures to help you identify the driver. Do not use the words evidence or proof and do not elaborate. There may be a front view of your car that shows the driver.
This is not goint to go away. Act Now. Pete D
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Mon 26 May 2014 18:14
Identifying a driver - concrete
If this was a Camera Van Ping then there will be a video. Write to them and ask for copies of any pictures to help you identify the driver. Do not use the words evidence or proof and do not elaborate. There may be a front view of your car that shows the driver. This is not goint to go away. Act Now. Pete D

This is correct. Follow the advice of PeterD. You are in a classic Catch 22 situation. The offence is failure to name the driver: you say you cannot name the driver. Ergo; no solution. The bench will look upon this with righfully scepticism. When no solution is available to you, then damage limitation is your fallback position. The least damage is the driver with the fewer points on their licence takes the blame. Sorry, but sadly true. On of lifes' harsher lessons.

Best of luck. Please let us all know the outcome. Cheers Concrete.

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