I would have made the same suggestion as the symptoms sound like retarded pump timing but if it runs OK when warm, doesn't smoke and the mpg is OK that tends to make me feel unsure. Another symptom of retarded timing is that the engine woul br running quieter.

I would be inclined to check for voltage on your glow plugs when you turn the ignition, you should have around 10-11 volts for about 20 seconds.

Yes, i'd be looking at timing, pump and cam, even if i have the full locking kits i still like to mark the relevent sprockets for peace of mind, turn the engine over few times by hand and actually see those marks all line up again.

Interesting theory that pump timing might be out but by a small enough degree for electronics to compensate once running.

How quickly might that happen and would it occur at every re-start? Rough running described in OP is primarily occuring after being left overnight, though it doesn't feel quite right after say an hour or two.

Rang garage yesterday morning and spoke to Principal who knows me as a customer of 20 yrs standing. He suggests an injector sticking or letting in air, a fault that clears after 5-10seconds of running rough.

What does the panel think.

Been thinkling about this Brompton, before you take it back in, i assume you have a plunger or rubber bellows fitting to prime the fuel filter with under the bonnet....before you do the next start just give that a few pumps/squeezes to make sure you have full head of fuel to start with....you mentioning the filter being changed made me think a bit more.

I had an issue years ago with badly stamped out fuel filter from a local factor i used to use then, it wouldn't seal properly , cheap make anyway...they started to get shirty with me now and again when i asked for proper quality makes and not the accessory shop tat they increasingly stocked...i go there no more, shirty doesn't gel well with me when i'm a paying customer of many years.

Are the glow plugs staying energised for about 2 minutes after starting?

They do on mine - you can hear the engine note change when they are switched off.

it's called 'post heating'.

Edited by mss1tw on 21/04/2014 at 16:19

If it starts and runs fine when you operate the primer then its not the timing Bromp, its somehow draining fuel back into the tank when parked, well thats where i would be looking first, sounds like each time you start it without priming its having to self bleed itself.

Suggest you prime it every time for the next few days before starting after X number of hours stood standing (like a big girls blouse, only those of a certain age) to establish a pattern, that will help the garage enormously to track down the problem.

If it were me i'd be looking straight at the filter first, and its connections/seals.

edit...i wonder if there's a pre pump in the tank not doing its job, not only not pumping fuel up but allowing reverse flow?...don't know this is just a suggestion....pin hole in fuel return pipe?

Edited by gordonbennet on 22/04/2014 at 08:53

Blimey Bromp, a name from the past, Northampton Diesels no less.

One of the best Diesel shops in the country IMO, but thats going back over 20 years since i last used them, haven't the foggiest what they are like now.

I'm out of the loop, at one time proper hauliers maintained their own and when a pump/injectors required work then a good indy Diesel shop was used, and where to go for your own car Diesel work was noted.

Now nobody services their own vehicles and lorry makers have put as much fragile electronic rubbish in their vehicles as car makers have, sometimes more so, hence it goes to the main dealer under contract maintenance incl parts and the vehicle gets returned at 5 years old when the lease expires.

Oh yes they go wrong, the ECU's in some of our lorries must be secured on wing nuts so often are they replaced together with wiring looms pumps etc...unfortunately the original problem isn't sorted until half the vehicle has been replaced, computer says this, its changed for a new complete unit, oh dear that £3000 didn't cure it, never mind carry on.

We have one that has spent more time at the dealer than on the road in the last 6 months, new pumps new wiring loom new ECU's etc etc, been connected to the makers technical dept online in their country for hours on end and still no one can fix it, try putting a new whatsit in etc etc, i dread to think what this would have cost had it been billable hours and parts, but the downtime alone is staggering.

I see the results of this on the lorry forum i go on, owner drivers who have bought into some of these once fantastic tough unbreakable makes, buying used, are finding the costs of correct diagnosis and repair can far outweigh the cost of a new vehicle on payments...music to some makers ears?

There's a funny thing, almost no one except the tipper lads (who rate them highly) will touch Hino, a Toyota company, old fashioned in the way that Toyota cars were even 10 years ago, if it wasn't broke they didn't fix it, no automated manual gearboxes now standard fit by all euro makers, simple wiring, simple engineering, its an industrial vehicle used in hostile environments so simple engineering is best.

I hope the new company Redline have kept the old competence going.

Edited by gordonbennet on 22/04/2014 at 11:24

Thought it worth an update on this.

Although glow plugs seemed to cure the problem last spring rough starting returned with the winter. I lived with it for a bit and then had other issues - it needed clutch and exhaust in quick succession and one or two other 'wobbles'. Passed MoT with flying colours though.

By middle of last month it was getting rougher to point of idling off beat when cold - though fine after 30 seconds or so. Usual garage still in head scratching mode so dispatched it to another place with more sophisticated diagnostics. A compression test (so not really sophisticated at all) showed nos. 1&2 cylinders below par. Initial diagnosis was that head gasket had blown across those two cylinders. Had lengthy discussions about how best to deal with that bearing in mind complexity of separating block/head, need for skim, possibility of crack etc.

Options included a replacement engine.

Fortunately somebody in the other place (thanks Richard W) reminded me of an earlier suggestion of valve clearances. This engine apparently has previous for slight valve recession. Result is that valve sits lower in its seat by a fraction of a mm and eventually gets to point where, when engine is cold, it cannot close properly as the stem is bearing on the follower. Just a bit of heat/expansion and normal service is resumed, thus it replicates glow plug trouble.

Garage were a bit doubtful until I insisted no other work was being done without valve clearances being tested first. Result? 'your car's valves have almost no clearance'.

Unfortunately adjustment is by shims so it's cam out/in/out (and shake it all about) to fit correct thickness to restore specified clearance. A couple of days in workshop (and a £500 bill) and car is at last starting and running normally!!

Hopefully no more troubles before I get it to target of 200kmiles/15yrs.....

Edited by Bromptonaut on 01/06/2015 at 18:14

You need to let me know when you're getting rid of this cosseted Berlingo, Bromp.

I'll take it off your hands at 200K and won't even charge you. ;)

Your's still going OK?