Toyota Auris 2010 - TR 5dr 1.33 VVT-i - Carbon Build EGR Valve after 4 Years

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Fri 4 Apr 2014 18:45
Toyota Auris 2010 - TR 5dr 1.33 VVT-i - Carbon Build EGR Valve after 4 Years - rebelsheep

Hi,

I have a 4 year old, 2010 Auris. Bought from a dealer second hand, had it 6 months.

Performance was sluggish (even for this model).

Toyota dealer inspected. Said it had a P6104 fault code. That the engine is choked with carbon. That Toyota Technical Bulletin recommends replacement of gaskets, pistons and cylinder head with Toyota customised parts (so known fault).

My question is - I bought the Toyota because I wanted a reliable, robust car.

Surely something this major shouldn't have got through quality control + testing!

It has done 22k miles.

It shouldn't be so coked up after 22k and 4 miles.

All they said to me was - tut, tut you shouldn't get your fuel from supermarkets, but Esso or Shell.

Cobblers.

Esso + shell may have more detergents in the premium stuff, but the standard isn't much / any different from supermarket.

It all comes from the same tanks / source - ie. Carrington.

Toyota will not give me the Technical Bulletin that refers to the fault.

And now I just feel like a I have bought a lemon - rather than something reliable.

If it can't handle four years of driving and 22k, then it isn't fit for purpose - even with replacement parts.

Do I have a point?

Or am I over-reacting?

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Fri 4 Apr 2014 20:28
Toyota Auris 2010 - TR 5dr 1.33 VVT-i - Carbon Build EGR Valve after 4 Years - Railroad.
Why do you think supermarket fuel is cheaper than branded fuel? Do you honestly think that supermarkets are trying to do you a favour by offering the same stuff at a lower price?
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Sat 5 Apr 2014 00:16
Toyota Auris 2010 - TR 5dr 1.33 VVT-i - Carbon Build EGR Valve after 4 Years - Perfection
Why do you think supermarket fuel is cheaper than branded fuel? Do you honestly think that supermarkets are trying to do you a favour by offering the same stuff at a lower price?

To be honest, I have seen. ASDA fuel tanker filling up Shell service station.

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Fri 4 Apr 2014 20:36
Toyota Auris 2010 - TR 5dr 1.33 VVT-i - Carbon Build EGR Valve after 4 Years - madf

A petrol engined car driven short journeys and never driven fast, never warmed up and never on a motorway will coke up.

How many miles did you do in the six months? And what kind of journeys.?

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Fri 4 Apr 2014 22:41
Toyota Auris 2010 - TR 5dr 1.33 VVT-i - Carbon Build EGR Valve after 4 Years - unthrottled

22,000 miles in 4 years is about 5500 miles/year.

Complete baloney about the supermarket fuel though. Ask for a written confirmation of the advice not to use supermarket fuel-then show it to a supermarket retailer!

New pistons and cylinder head sounds very drastic for a bit of carbon build up.

Edited by unthrottled on 04/04/2014 at 22:43

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Sat 5 Apr 2014 09:26
Toyota Auris 2010 - TR 5dr 1.33 VVT-i - Carbon Build EGR Valve after 4 Years - Collos25

The OP has not said what problems he has ,it sounds like a way to relieve the wallet of some hard earned money rather than a real mechanical fault.

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Sat 5 Apr 2014 09:33
Toyota Auris 2010 - TR 5dr 1.33 VVT-i - Carbon Build EGR Valve after 4 Years - bazza

New pistons and cylinder head sounds very drastic for a bit of carbon build up.

Agree. The thing with the main dealer is that they will work to procedure, regardless. I would start by having the EGR valve cleaned or replaced, that should not be expensive and most independants can do that for you. Do you drive very gently? If so, a couple of long hard drives, revving the engine up towards its red line and keeping it up there for a few miles will clean the internals up and burn some of the soot away. Don't worry, engines are built to take it and you won't harm it.

Then see how it's going. Please let us know. I don't honestly believe it needs new pistons and head!

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Sat 5 Apr 2014 13:44
Toyota Auris 2010 - TR 5dr 1.33 VVT-i - Carbon Build EGR Valve after 4 Years - privateinvestor

from my perspective it highlights the fact that Toyota takes warranty work and customer satisfaction seriously and once agin has put its hands up and offered a generous repair.

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Sat 5 Apr 2014 13:45
Toyota Auris 2010 - TR 5dr 1.33 VVT-i - Carbon Build EGR Valve after 4 Years - rebelsheep

Symptoms were poor acceleration - especially in 4th gear around 40mph (old grannies were leaving me in their dust). And poor MPG, 35 to 37.

Toyota Technican says others with the same fault may have trouble starting the engine.

I try to mix my driving - so do quite a lot of gentle town driving. But then once every couple of weeks take it for a good thrash down the motorway for 100 miles.

When I bought it I didn't know how previous owner had treated it - so I put some Redex in it and took it for a long fast 150 mile drive.

Unknown to me the car already had a design fault issue with the EGR (and I guess with the pistons and heads if the Tech Bulletin also recommends their replacement with newly designed / modified parts).

So I was probably adding to the problem with the Redex. If it was already choked up the newly dislodged carbon would have no where to go (if you know what I mean).

I take the point with the branded v supermarket fuel, but in this case I think it is a red herring - helpful but not the main problem / solution.

The problem is the with the design fault of the various parts already mentioned.

It is a known issue - hence having a Technical Bulletin all to itself.

I suppose even Toyota are prone to making design cockups. Just my luck to buy the one that they dropped the ball on.

I sincerely hope that the new parts are a genuine long term fix and not just a temporary bodge.

Technician said that they have just started seeing quite a few Auris 1.33 VTs with the same problem coming in recently.

So for those who have an Auris 1.33 VT 2007 - 2013 better get it checked over for the fault and at least get it rectified before the Toyota 5 year warranty runs out!

Luckily I am just in warranty - so no one is trying it on with me to make money (as suggested by someone in an earlier reply).

Thank you for the responses.

Edited by rebelsheep on 05/04/2014 at 13:50

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Sat 5 Apr 2014 14:10
Toyota Auris 2010 - TR 5dr 1.33 VVT-i - Carbon Build EGR Valve after 4 Years - rebelsheep

I meant Auris 1.33 VVT-i - not 1.33 VT (which is nonsense).

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Sat 5 Apr 2014 19:05
Toyota Auris 2010 - TR 5dr 1.33 VVT-i - Carbon Build EGR Valve after 4 Years - unthrottled

Ditch redex. It's just very expensive kerosene and alcohol and some food colouring. Kerosene has no place in petrol engines.

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Sun 6 Apr 2014 18:40
Toyota Auris 2010 - TR 5dr 1.33 VVT-i - Carbon Build EGR Valve after 4 Years - injection doc
I think you mean fault code P1604 ? Rather than P6104?

The code is a little generic and can relate to a starting issue or torque issue.
Can be triggered by starting the car accidentally in gear ! Or if the. Battery is a little low and the engine is slower turning over at start up 1604 canbe triggered in 2seconds. freeze frame date must be captured when this fault is triggered !
GARAGES and DEALERS are almost adverse to obtaining freeze frame data but your answer will be there !
The ECM does several checks including temp sensor check and cross checks with RPM etc

Is the torque curve consistent from 2400rpm to 5000?
If the tourque isn't consistent the EGR and VVT control should be checked.

Years ago Toyotas used to suffer with horrendous amount of carbon in the inlet ports restricting performance, partially caused by CCV systems and poor fuel quality by certain fuel companies.

I have dealt with cars in the past ( multivalve engines) where. Performance has been reduced by excess carbon but. I simply fit an old washer bag of water under the bonnet with a tiny hose from the bag to a vacuum point on the inlet manifold, adding a restrict or tap in the pipe .
Going for an extended drive the water going through the manifold will wash the carbon away and even decode the valves and pistons !
If you have ever seen an engine apart. Where a headgasket has failed you will see shiny valves and pistons on the failed cylinder where water has cracked the carbon off.

It can take several bags of water over several hundred miles but it does work very well.

Have you tried a well branded make of fuel ( several tank fills and not supermarket) ad a few serious runs on the motorway for serious miles !
I'm not going to debate the fuel verses supermarket issue other than I was involved in fuel testing and let's just say you get what you pay for ! Yes cheap meets a minimum standard but dearer well branded add a lot of additives often essential for many variable valve multivalve engines !
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Mon 7 Apr 2014 11:04
Toyota Auris 2010 - TR 5dr 1.33 VVT-i - Carbon Build EGR Valve after 4 Years - dieselnut

" I simply fit an old washer bag of water under the bonnet with a tiny hose "

That sounds ingenious, cheap & effective. Just the sort of idea I like.

What sort of rate of flow do you use. I'm suspecting something like 1 drip per second.

Also assuming you wait till the engine is hot before starting the process.

Have you tried it on a Diesel, although the water would need to be pressurised as no vacuum in the manifold.

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Mon 7 Apr 2014 19:14
Toyota Auris 2010 - TR 5dr 1.33 VVT-i - Carbon Build EGR Valve after 4 Years - injection doc

yes your right Dieselnut, just a restricted flow where the engine is happy to run and it doesnt flood the manifold with water on the overun !

I can promise you it works very well indeed ! I have had cars suffering with sticky valves that have needed nothing more than this trick and a few hundered miles.

I just leave the old washer bag under the bonnet for a few weeks and dont worry about whether hot or cold, as long as the water is going but not too quickly it does the job.

I have used a gravity feed on a diesel and again just used a fish tank tap to adjust the water flow and that still works ok on a diesel but takes longer and can only do whilst running stationary. you need a water injection system with atomizer. It could be done done

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Tue 8 Apr 2014 14:09
Toyota Auris 2010 - TR 5dr 1.33 VVT-i - Carbon Build EGR Valve after 4 Years - dieselnut

Thanks for the info ID.

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Tue 8 Apr 2014 16:18
Toyota Auris 2010 - TR 5dr 1.33 VVT-i - Carbon Build EGR Valve after 4 Years - unthrottled

The trouble with carbon build up is that carbon deposits are not soluble in water (or pretty much any other solvent including petrol). That's why it's such a pain to get rid of. The water trick will clean piston crowns and valves (basically from thermal shock causing differential expansion between the metal and the carbon causing it to spall off).

I've not really found the water trick very effective. Modern manifolds are designed for dry flow so most of the ingested water goes to only one or two cylinders-which is worse than cleaning none.

At low throttle settings, the water readily boils in the manifold and raises manifold pressure which fools the ECU into thinking that there's more airflow than there really is. So it messes with the short and long term fuel trim.

Remember that every gallon of fuel burned produces a gallon of water. There's plenty of superheated steam in your cylinders already!

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