Berlingo Petrol Van - Citroen steering rack knock | Technical matters | Back Room Forum

Tue 1 Apr 2014 19:25

Berlingo Petrol Van - Citroen steering rack knock - Kylie

Please read my previous post on this but basically (Aug 2013-present) a knocking developed from what seemed to be my steering rack and over a long period (8 months) the tracking (nsf) would go out and pull to the left, so had the tracking reset a couple of times. February 2014 had a new rack fitted by my mechanic with a reconditioned one from Camberley Auto Factors plus near and o/side front lower ball joints and n/s/f shocker and then had the tracking reset. Kwick fit had problems getting the camber/toe and straight ahead adjustment s right. The knock from the new steering rack (or area) with is now worse, and my van still weaves/wanders a bit over bad road surfaces.It also has a tendancy to veer left mostly but sometimes right when coming to a gentle stop, depending on camber/road surface. There's also the same knocking when going over bump/potholes, that seems to be mostly induced from the n/s/f wheel area. Front end also seems to roll too much on cornering, and say if you go over speed humps when steering is in a turn right/left position. (ie - rocking from side to side) this can also cause the knocking.

April 1st 2014 - Went to a Citroen dealer today who checked it out and said I need a new rack, as they said the rack is what's knocking! I told them I'd only just had a new one fitted! Their diagnosis seems very odd to me, especially when the original rack which was replaced had nothing wrong with it.

I'm beginning to suspect the knock, (which is felt in the centre part of the steering through steering wheel and down by my feet where the pedals are) may actually be being induced by something else, and the knock isn't really the rack but something in the n/s/f components which are associated. In other words, the knock can be felt at the rack but may masking what's causing it. I can't see how two racks could fail like this.

Can anyone help me nail this or suggest the next move?

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Wed 2 Apr 2014 10:34

Berlingo Petrol Van - Citroen steering rack knock - Collos25

Antiroll bar rubbers or drop links.

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Sat 19 Apr 2014 08:44

Berlingo Petrol Van - Citroen steering rack knock - Kylie

Update March/18th April..On advice, I had 4 brand new tyres fitted and the wheels were swapped front to back. Ran vehicle for a week and had Kwikfit check for n/s/f pull to the left. They found both anti roll bar links to have failed. These were replaced but the pull to the left was worse. A few days later they found the tracking to be 4mm out on the near side and corrected the tracking. I will see how this goes but it seems very odd how my tracking keeps going out..95% of the knocking has gone but there is still a knock coming from the rack area from time to time and there is still a lean to n/s/f, as if car is center tracked but something wants to pull or flex to the left.Could it be I have a bent wishbone causing the strut leg to be twisted or out of correct position? How can I tell if the wishbone is bent? Thanks for the replies so far.

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Sat 19 Apr 2014 10:36

Berlingo Petrol Van - Citroen steering rack knock - Bolt

Sorry dont know the motor but from what you said has it got a front subframe?,if it has it could be bushes broken on near side allowing it to drift away from chassis

Just a thought

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Sat 19 Apr 2014 16:15

Berlingo Petrol Van - Citroen steering rack knock - Peter.N.

front wheel toe in alignment doesn't normally cause the vehicle to pull to one side but it will cause rapid tyre wear and skittishness if its far out. the wrong camber angle will casue it to pull to one side but its not normally adjustable and generally is only out of spec if something has been damaged.

I would be looking for failed rubber bushes as the previous poster has mentioned.

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Sat 10 May 2014 21:32

Berlingo Petrol Van - Citroen steering rack knock - Kylie

UPDATE April 14th. Thanks for those who posted messages for me by the way. Took my van to a garage who used to service it a few years ago (don't normally use them as they are expensive on labour now but have helped me out big time in the past) and they found the n/s/f wheel bearing whining. They said to change that first before they could look at the pull/steering issue and have another wheel alignment done. Had the new bearing fitted then the tracking checked at MERITyre in Bagshot (on their recommendation) and they found the alignment way out. The garage by the way did say the steering feels notchy. ALIGNMENT.. Before readings (degrees/laser machine) FRONT Left -0.14 FRONT Right -0.29 REAR Left 0.00 REAR Right -0.04 - all four out of spec (shown as red on print out) A F T E R READINGS FRONT Left -0.10 Right -0.10 (both green on print out) REAR Left 0.01 REAR Right -0.02 (both red on print out). Unfortunately, I couldn't go back for them to further their investigation, van having been off road for two days, not earning me any money. Since then I have travelled about 1,000 miles and there is no difference - that is to say the pull to the left still persists, and the vehicle still seems to lean to the left front. No amount of tracking adjustments seem make this or the lean any better. I still get the feeling that the n/s/f is taking more weight vs. the right (ie: as if the front weight distribution isn't evenly balanced) which is the same as when the tracking started going out back in August 2013. Bit like a wonky scarecrow, if you get my drift. Also, say if I move forward slowly and turn the steering wheel a very small amount from side to side (going straight positions 11 o'clock to 1 o'clock) as I do getting out of my parking place - it feels like the drop rods are pushing the ride heights up and down side2side on their own - a bit like steam pistons do (on the vertical). Also, it seems that the new drop links/rods/steering are already beginning to knock again and I feel sure from the flexing feeling I get (front to aft and side to side) that the anti roll bar is under undue pressure/stress (please see my previous). I also think the n/s/f strut is rocking quite badly too - when accelerating or coming to a stop). I get a lot of engine vibration thru the chassis, occasional feint wheel shake which occasionally occurs on breaking from speed - but this is not all the time. Roll problems existed at the beginning. Basically the problem remains unresolved, despite a handful of alignment checks/adjustments (six now I think since problem first occurred), a new steering rack, two front ball joints and a n/s/f shocker and wheel bearing. I am hoping things won't get worse between now and when I can have a good look over with my mechanic. Personally, through deduction, I would be inclined to look next at changing the n/s lower steering arm along with the wishbone and also have my mechanic put a new top shock mounting on. Mounting was not changed when shocker replaced - just in case they are bent or the mounting is locking, although he did say there was not need to change - it was ok. It could be the n/s strut leg isn't sitting correctly thus causing the tracking issues. Most of the ride/steering/flexing/thud/knocking/tracking problems have always seemed more exaggerated/worse on the left front since the original pull to the left started. As mentioned previously - I'm certain my problems stem from pothole damage to n/s/f. At this stage I'm inclined to eliminate as many component issues on the near/s/f as possible, before getting into another sub frame drop with my mechanic - to look at maybe replacing the whole anti-roll bar (in case it's bent) and bushes. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Sorry for the long winded posts.

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Sat 10 May 2014 22:16

Berlingo Petrol Van - Citroen steering rack knock - twitcherman

You seem prepared to spend a lot of time and money sorting this vehicle. Does it have great sentimental value for you?

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Sat 10 May 2014 22:40

Berlingo Petrol Van - Citroen steering rack knock - Bolt

Still sounds like subframe to me,have you not got a decent garage that knows what they are doing in your area,it shouldnt be that hard to find the problem,at the moment they seem to be assuming parts are worn/damaged

Subframe while not moving may be perfectly in line untill you drive off then it moves rearwards causing left hand pull,used to be common problem on BL cars,like mini you may not remember them ;)

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Sat 10 May 2014 22:41

Berlingo Petrol Van - Citroen steering rack knock - Bolt

I forgot to mention it may cause the knock as well

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Sun 11 May 2014 13:48

Berlingo Petrol Van - Citroen steering rack knock - Kylie

Thanks again for the replies. On the subframe, it's been out/dropped once already to fit the new rack.My mechanic says it was tightened up solid. My van is my workshorse and it's more cost effective to spend the time and money for the moment, as I can't afford to replace it. As regards to having a decent garage close by, I have tried a Citroen dealer, my mechanic and the other garage who did the wheel bearings, so I'm not sure what constitutes a decent garage anymore. Maybe my problem is best diagnosed in a bodyshop, where they can get it on a body alignment jig?

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Wed 14 May 2014 22:11

Berlingo Petrol Van - Citroen steering rack knock - Kylie

UPDATE 14th May - seem to be getting a lot of engine shake at idle from the engine now, which can also been felt when holding the gearstick.

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Wed 14 May 2014 22:23

Berlingo Petrol Van - Citroen steering rack knock - Kylie

Having received your advice and from the research I've done on the web, including advice from the people at Haynes (manuals), What I propose to do is take a test drive with my mechanic to demonstrate the fault more thoroughly, especially as it's getting worse. In terms of items which have not been changed - such as the n/s/f lower steering arm, lower wishbone ( both in case bent), n/s/f spring (in case of failed spring tension), n/s/f top strut mount (as not renewed when replaced), the subframe (which presumably cannot be checked properly 'till extracted - for cracks/out of 'square') and possible anti-roll bar and/or bushes - could anyone suggest an order for a series of checks (and what to look for/how to check them) as an elimination process?

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