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We have 5 BMWs in the family including 2 3series all have winter tyres and all have the pressure that is shown in the manual not more not less.I personally have Mercedes with winter tyres the pressure of the tyres is that shown in the manual and on the filler cap.
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Great - standard pressures it is all round then. Thanks a lot.
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Gb - that's standard pressure for an unladen car straight from the plate on the inside of the door. Same in the handbook which, incidentally, makes no reference to pressure for winter tyres; hence the question really - does there actually need to be one?
Cheers.
Thanks, that really surprises me unless the car is an estate, can't recall a F/R difference like that on any of my previous cars apart from the Hilux and even that was only about 4lb difference unladen.
Suppose i'm too used to my old MB's where the difference F/R is only 1 or 2 lbs, the Outlander is same all round.
Aside for a moment, i noticed our company cars have all been fitted with winter tyres for the season, part of the leasing deal, top notch tyres too fitted to the standard normal wheels.
If we get bad weather and they prove their worth to the suits i shall formally request drive axle winters be tested on some of our fleet next year.
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I spend half my working life in Scandinavia and having experienced several heavy winters with temps as low as -27 I am amazed and impressed that, to a large extent, their country just keeps working. Obviously it's the law that they have to have winter tyres but they have educated me that they are not just a gimmick or for snow but in fact are as much a safety feature when the temp goes below 7 degrees as having effective brakes are.
I have run winter tyres on the 3 cars I have had over the last 4 years and every year I have not had a single problem when 4x4's and FWD cars have. Granted a lot of that is simply down to the driver's skill factor in bad weather but nonetheless I am a convert and feel much safer with them whether it snows or not. This year is the first for me in a RWD car so they'll hopefully prove their worth.
I have actually got unlucky this year as I bought 4 online in August only to have an issue where 1 or more is warped and sending very bad vibrations through the cabin at speed. The online shop tried to give me all sorts of rubbish about all winter tyres having a flat spot that needed to be counterbalanced with different weights blah blah so I either have to put up with it or buy a replacement set - expensive.
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I have actually got unlucky this year as I bought 4 online in August only to have an issue where 1 or more is warped and sending very bad vibrations through the cabin at speed. The online shop tried to give me all sorts of rubbish about all winter tyres having a flat spot that needed to be counterbalanced with different weights blah blah so I either have to put up with it or buy a replacement set - expensive.
Thats bad service Dingle, i too have run winters in season since about 2006, all my winters have been bought online either from Mytyres or Camskill, my lad bought from Oponeo this year (absolute bargain which riased by £35 each within three days), and to date not a problem and i too think their explanation rubbish.
Might be an idea to have a word with a mature tyre chap, get him to spin the affected wheel(s) up in his balancer so you can both have a look see...even spinning it up by hand on the front axle might show up any distortion, if when fitted not enough lubricant was used, its unlikely but entirely possible one has never seated fully all round if fitted dry, and yes i have seen incompetents fit them dry and rip the beads to shreds on the machine.
In my previous work i collected lots of slightly used BMW's from one of the credit hire money spinners, during a high volume defleet spell there was hard packed snow and ice on the disused airfield compound for several weeks, those BMW's could hardly move on their 18/19" runflat summer slicks on the flat, so it will be very interesting to hear your views.
I've run RWD and/or 4WD for years now (can't stand FWD and its horrid under/torque steer) and i never give the winter a second thought on the right tyres, failing to get to work is not an option and very often my car has been the only 2WD to make it out from where we live in the early morings.
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Yep I completely agree on both counts GB about the service and the place I bought from was one of those listed in your email (it wasn't Oponeo who I have previously found to be excellent).
The thing is I am in a spot really as, if I do as he suggests, then I have to take them off and send them back so that they can 'send them back to Continental for assessment'. Like I don't know the outcome of that already and it means that I effectively have to run my Summer tyres whilst they faff about deciding if they are faulty or not. Kinda defeats the object of having them in the first place. It also costs me to have them removed/refitted of course.
I'm planning to have a look at them with a tyre guy tomorrow up on a ramp.
I am no expert but I don't think fitting winter tyres is a greater science than any other (these are Run Flats) and the rubbish he was telling me on Friday beggared belief. I am looking at maybe getting either a replacemnt set of Nokians (the recommended tyres across Scandinavia and they know a thing or two) or I am researching all season tyres but am not sure how much of a compromise they are over the real thing? Never tried them but the reviews seem very favourable and would save a heck of a lot of messing as I only have one set of rims.
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Well i can help you a little on the all seasons, some of our family cars particularly my daughter has been through several sets of all seasons, particularly Vredesteins Quatrac 2 and later 3, very good those and have no hesitation in recommending, but as to be expected now expensive as in the winter season.
My daugher drove like the devil himself, i'm certain these tyres have kept her out of trouble, she's a little better now..or so she tells me..;)
I run Nokian WRG2's on my MB, in my humble they are not as good in greasy conditions as Vredestein Wintracs, they improve markedly as the temperature plummets, but i wouldn't replace them with the same model, i would however be quite happy with other Nokians or Vredesteins.
However the only reason i run full winters is because i bought the present set (on another set of good alloys) before Vredstein released Quatrac 3 in my size and speed rating, by choice i would be running the one set of Vred all seaons.
Very surprised to hear that Continentals are your problem tyre here, was expecting something a bit less highly thought of.
Hope the tyre chap can offer some input tomorrow, maybe he'll try pushing them off the beads and reinflating with the beads well lubed and rebalance, thats what i would have done when i worked in the tyre lark in a previous life, do let us know how you get on please.
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The right pressure is the right pressure regardless of tyre type. Do the chalk test (google it) once you've determined the right pressure for you car with the average load it carries it will apply to any tyre fitted. Tyres don't deny physics.
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I think I'll just stick to the BMW advice - it's simpler.
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Do the chalk test (google it) once you've determined the right pressure for you car with the average load it carries it will apply to any tyre fitted.
Just use the pressures on the plate in the car or in the handbook. Manufacturers know a thing or two about tyre pressures, they do spend a few million developing cars using something a little more sophisticated than a Goggle search and a piece of chalk.
In the 39 years I have owned a car the manufacturers pressures have always been good enough for me.
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Do the chalk test (google it) once you've determined the right pressure for you car with the average load it carries it will apply to any tyre fitted.
Just use the pressures on the plate in the car or in the handbook. Manufacturers know a thing or two about tyre pressures, they do spend a few million developing cars using something a little more sophisticated than a Goggle search and a piece of chalk.
In the 39 years I have owned a car the manufacturers pressures have always been good enough for me.
The manufacturer's recomended tyre pressures will be based on worse-case-scenarios when it comes to the load of the vehicle, the chalk test will give you the correct tyre pressures required based on how you load your vehicle - not those guessed at given the worse case axle load situations.
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Do the chalk test (google it) once you've determined the right pressure for you car with the average load it carries it will apply to any tyre fitted. Tyres don't deny physics.
You don't even need to do the "chalk test" - there's a simple calculation based on plated axle load, maximum tyre pressure and maximum tyre load.
BUT - that's just where the engineers START from - there's many other factors involved, whether the axle is steered or not, the axle geometry and above all the handling of the car as well as others I don't even know about.
That's why all manufacturers employ development engineers.
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Well, just for completeness I managed to get the issue with the tyres resolved today thanks to a really helpful bunch of blokes at ATS who actually let me observe each wheel on the balancing machine so I could see for myself. 3 of the 4 tyres were not balanced correctly and took significant weight adjustment to correct.
The guys also said, though I am not sure how much of this is fact and I am no expert, that snow tyres were more difficult to balance on wheels than Summer tyres. Anyway, I spent £28 which felt appreciably better than spending £600 on a new set of tyres and the car drives as it should drive now and at the correct pressures - I am happy again.
Thanks for the comments esp. to gordonbennet - helped a lot.
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Thanks for the update Dingle, wish others would do that.
I would say whoever fitted them originally wasn't competent enough on the balancer, glad you've had some proper tyre geezers check them out.
Now enjoy the ice and snow..;)
Edited by gordonbennet on 16/12/2013 at 21:07
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Winter tyres with their deeper treads and shorter production runs will very likely be more out of balance requiring more counter weighting - some tyre manufacturers are simply better at building more balanced tyres out the box - Michelins, for example, are usually well manufactured requiring very little correction if the alignment dot is adhered to.
I have been using online tyre places since they appeared and have found I've had more balancing issues as a result - I reckon tyre fitters get the hump at online customers and do not take the same care fitting and balancing the tyres as they do for the more profitable customers who buy the fitters' tyres.
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Rubbish,why comment about tyre production when you really do not have much knowledge.
Edited by Collos25 on 22/12/2013 at 17:29
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Rubbish,why comment about tyre production when you really do not have much knowledge.
I used to be a partner in a tyre fitting shop in my twenties and often ran the shop when my partner was on his hols. So I have (had) direct extensive experience of Michelins being easier to balance - even if I don't like them very much as tyres (always lacked feel in the wet to me), winter tyres were quite rare back then but I do remember them often being hard to balance, I suspect there was less money spent on developing the moulds due to shorter production runs and the general lower speed requirements of the tyres.
As for not having much knowledge - it takes one to know one...
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With regards to winter tyres being more difficult to balance my experience says that is total nonsense.
The tyres on my car now are on their 3rd set of rims. 2 were BMW rims (got a better set thus had tyres swapped over) and the current set are genuine VAG steel rims. We have a tyre fitter up the street and he sorts all my tyre needs and he has never had a problem balancing them.
Have the same tyres on the Mrs car, again no balancing problems.
There has never been an excess of weight fitted even though todays zinc weights are not as "compact" as the old lead weights.
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As I pointed out, winter tyres used to have very low speed ratings - the speed rating of modern ones seems to match standard tyres - perhaps things have moved on balance wise?
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Agree with Steve lee, Michelins were well known for needing no or very little balancing, i found that to be the case in my young days in the tyre lark, the older wiser fitters used to say they were the only truly round tyre.
No doubt things have changed as time has gone by, however..
Never found them as good as expected TBH, long lasting yes miles longer than anything else, but the older designs were hopeless in the wet.
Recently having bought two cars with them fitted, whilst they grip as well as anything now, that grip comes at the price of noise and ride quality IMO, though they are far from alone in this, and i have removed them early (as with a set of Toyo T1R's which gripped fanstastically) due to unbearably crashy and noisy ride in both cases.
Sporty version of Mich was fitted to the C2 VTS HDi in 195/45 x 16 size, down to about 5mm tread depth on the fronts but i took that into account, despite good grip the car displayed unpleasant torque steer characteristics, swapped them early for a set of four Vredestein Sportrac 3, different car altogether, no torque steer whatsoever quieter and softer riding.
Couldn't say about winter tyre balancing, i no longer fit my own tyres but have been tempted to do so, as Steve Lee, never saw a winter tyre in my day, mind you there were only about 4 different car tyre sizes covered the whole of the industry back then, the widest being a 670 cross ply or 185 radials, unless you got into Citroen DS with its metric XAS's or Rolls Royce's sat on Avons.
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