Too hung over to go biking yesterday so decided to tackle a 3 inch long patch of surface rust on the Rover driver door sill. [1]
Wire brushed it off, painted with rust killing gel then painted with one coat of anti rust primer.
That's all I intend to do.
Should I have done more?
Should I put a second coat of primer on?
[1] Right now it's purely superficial - in two years time I'm worried it might become a weak spot.
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These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
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IMO you need a 2nd coat of primer and a top coat.
IMO - skimp the job now, do it again later (or sooner maybe).
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No, leave it like that and then we'll know it's your car!
Seriously you need some sort of top coat. If your car is met dark green then there is a Hammerite colour that may be a reasonable match. Brushed onto sills if often looks OK.
MM
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No, leave it like that and then we'll know it's your car! Seriously you need some sort of top coat. If your car is met dark green then there is a Hammerite colour that may be a reasonable match. Brushed onto sills if often looks OK.
The sills are grey - exactly the same shade as the rust kill primer.
That's why I'm reluctant to bother with top coat.
Is the primer porus?
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These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
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>>Is the primer porus?
Highly likely. That's why you see old Fiestas with filler and primered wheelarches bleeding rust through the repair after only a few weeks.
You should easily find a brush-on grey gloss.
MM
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Highly likely. That's why you see old Fiestas with filler and primered wheelarches bleeding rust through the repair after only a few weeks. You should easily find a brush-on grey gloss.
$%£"*(.
I'm glad I don't work for you Middleman.
I'll go and buy some top coat tonight.
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These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
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Sorry to sound negative but in my "bangermonics" days I tried most of the so called "rust converters" and never found any of them to work.
The only way that worked for me was to completely remove all traces of rust.
My method was to use one of those rotary emery cloth attachments in my drill followed by delicate use of a rotary file bit to get into those areas that were pitted, I know it sounds a bit severe but in carefull hands it works.This was followed by a primer and topcoat and as explained in an earlier posting you must keep the surface dry and warm prior to priming.
Mal.
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Mal: If it Bubbles back up I will do that.
If no oxigen can get to it it can't rust. QED.
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These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
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Toad The oxygen already in present in the rust that has not been removed and also from your warm breath condensing on the cold surface while taking a close admiring look at your handiwork prior to painting hence the need to warm it.
"These are my opinions only etc." ;-)
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>>If no oxigen can get to it it can't rust. QED.
Agreed. But that oxygen doesn't have to come from outside the paint/primer or whatever - you could have left a small amount of condensation, and air bubble or a hole.
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The only 100% way to remove rust if it is badly pitted is by sand-blasting the area or by cutting it out.
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It was *very* superficial surface rust - I would have left it if it was on a panel but on the sill I don't want it to get a hold.
I didn't warm or dry the area (other than with a cloth). I 90 per cent removed all traces of rust.
Tonight I shall warm the area where I've put primer. If it is porus that should dry it out. Then I'll bung some top coat on.
It's in an obvious position so it *will* be noticed if it deteriorates.
I can't think of another solution other than stripping as best I can and starting again.
To be quite honest the thought on this thread seems to be you can't kill rust. Well I know that - I just want to slow it's progress as much as possible.
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These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
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As well as all the other replies Toad, are you 100% sure its only surface rust and not come from the inside of the sill out? To be on the safe side I would also give the insides of the sills a liberal spraying of waxoyl. Take a look in the rear wheel arches to see if there are any rubber bungs you can remove to spray the jollop into the sills. Don't forget to clear out any solidified waxoyl from the sill drain holes a few days later though.
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As well as all the other replies Toad, are you 100% sure its only surface rust and not come from the inside of the sill out?
POSITIVE! I scraped 90 per cent of it back to bare metal. If it had been perforated my heavy handed screw driver antics would have knocked a hole. It's 100 per cent sound. The rust was light surface rust.
To be on the safe side Iwould also give the insides of the sills a liberal spraying of waxoyl. Take a look in the rear wheel arches to see if there are any rubber bungs you can remove to spray the jollop into the sills. Don't forget to clear out any solidified waxoyl from the sill drain holes a few days later though.
Overkill! I only need a couple of years out of it. The sills are sound.
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These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
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Toad,
Was in the industrial coatings industry for longer than I care to remember.
The key is to get back to bright metal, or at least remove all non-tightly adhering rust if you're going to 'convert' whatever tightly adhering rust is left.
The job of the primer is to have excellent adhesion to what's below (not to rust) and preferably some have anti-corrosive properties.
The latter means that after application of the topcoat(s) and subsequently if the topcoat should get scratched or pinholed through to bare metal which will then of course rust locally where exposed, the primer will inhibit the rust from 'creeping' away from the scratch and causing the whole system to lose adhesion either side of the scratch.
In other words it's assumed that the primer will be overcoated. Normally the primer won't have sufficient weather resistance - this is the job of the topcoat.
Oz (as was)
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The key is to get back to bright metal, or at least remove all non-tightly adhering rust if you're going to 'convert' whatever tightly adhering rust is left.
That *has* been done. Just didn't warm it to paint. It *was* dry.
The job of the primer is to have excellent adhesion to what's below (not to rust) and preferably some have anti-corrosive properties.
It was painted onto 'converted' rust.
Normally the primer won't have sufficient weather resistance - this is the job of the topcoat.
Might it have any weather resistance? It's only got to last 2-3 years.
I'm worried it the primer is porus and the top coat isnt' I could be trapping moisture in the primer layer. At least if it's porus it will dry itself out.
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These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
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The key is to get back to bright metal, or at least remove all non-tightly adhering rust if you're going to 'convert' whatever tightly adhering rust is left.
That *has* been done. Just didn't warm it to paint. It *was* dry.
The job of the primer is to have excellent adhesion to what's below (not to rust) and preferably some have anti-corrosive properties.
It was painted onto 'converted' rust.
Normally the primer won't have sufficient weather resistance - this is the job of the topcoat.
Might it have any weather resistance? It's only got to last 2-3 years.
I'm worried that if the primer is porus and the top coat isn't I could be trapping moisture in the primer layer. At least if it's porus it will dry itself out.
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These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
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Might it have any weather resistance? It's only got to last 2-3 years.
Give it a try. Just keep an eye on it for any signs of rusting at pinholes (as the primer is grey they should show up easily), or any blisters. If these should occur you would need to abrade them back to bare metal, touch them up and then decide whether to topcoat the lot.
Oz (as was)
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Give it a try.
Is that give it a try as in 'Give it a try, I reckon it'll be ok' or give it a try as in 'Give it a try, it'll prove to you it's a bad idea'????
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These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
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Could very well be OK Toad, I just don't know the particular primer or what its manufacturer claims for it.
The signs to watch for that I mentioned may very well never happen - a lot depends on operating conditions, e.g. whether it's exposed to possible stone chipping and/or the big enemy - salt.
It's no coincidence that one of the main ways that paint manufacturers test their anticorrosion coatings is the salt spray cabinet - coated panels exposed to salt mist, to measure how far rust creeps under the paint, either side of a scratch through to bare metal.
Oz (as was)
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Could very well be OK Toad, I just don't know the particular primer or what its manufacturer claims for it. The signs to watch for that I mentioned may very well never happen - a lot depends on operating conditions, e.g. whether it's exposed to possible stone chipping and/or the big enemy - salt.
Ok. It's easy to watch.
Might still pop a top coat on. See how I feel. If it deteriorates at all I'll see it - it's clearly visable.
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These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
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I've been reading this thread with some interest and I wonder if one of the Rustafarians could answer a couple of related questions.
Paint on jobs don't work, everyone says, and the rust needs to be removed. What's best to put in the resulting hole?
What's the best way for a Joe Schmoe like me to dry it out. I haven't got a garage and would be working on the street?
I'm thinking of tackling my first rust job this weekend, so any help received with many thanks.
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If you ain't got a garage you could wait until the summer and use "solar energy" (warm sunny day).
Mal.
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Primer is porous, so bung on any old top coat otherwise you're wasting your time. Primer is designed to provide adhesion for the top coat, little more.
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Give it a couple of good thick coats of Hammerite. End of story -for a couple of years at least.
A friend of my sister's once bought a really scabby looking Mini (panels all different colours, lots of surface rust) but mechanically sound. All she wanted was something tidy to last a couple of years. I got a 2.5 litre pot of Hammerite (Metallic blue) and brushed it all over. Fair enough, it had a sort of reptile like texture (Oh, sorry, didn't mean to be toadist!) but it kept the rust back remarkably well!
Cheap n' cheerful!
Graeme
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What's best to put in the resulting hole?
Filler, such as Isopon, etc. If filling a large hole then first fill the hole with small wire mesh, then the filler has something to adhear to. That way the large lump of filler won't fall out when you go over a pot hole.
What's the best way for a Joe Schmoe like me to dry it out.
Hair drier?
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Toad,
Get a Zip wheel on an angle grinder, clears away rust like you would not believe.
www.millsindustrial.com/catalog/cat13_1.htm
You can find them at most DIY stores and motor factors under varying descriptions, but I always knew them as Zip wheels.
And I'd also agree with everyone else about a proper topcoat of paint!
Dave.
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