My 2003 Grand Espace's turbo, catalytic convertor and radiator have failed after only 57000km.
My garage tells me that turbo failure is a common problem with this car, and that I should write to Renault to try and get some compensation.
I'd like to provide evidence in this letter that this a common problem, and of it being a probable design fault. Can anyone help me with building my case?
Thanks
Garrett
Edited by Webmaster on 26/02/2008 at 12:00
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I believe the engine is an Isuzu and also fitted to the Vauxhall /Opel Signums so a search on that could yield additional info.
I believe there was a 3 ltr Vauxhall with problmes on HJs site in the last month or so.
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Garrett
It might be worth asking the question on Parker's site too. Lot's of disgruntled Renfault owners on there.
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Hi Garrett. We've got a 2.2 diesel grand espace that we have spent £6000 on since it came out of guaranteee - I think including the turbo. Have you got anywhere with this. I want to start putting pressure on Renault. It's at the garage again at the mo with Fuel Injection problems.
Thanks.
Caroline
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Hi
We have a 3 litre 2004 Grand Espace bought 2nd hand when it was 18 months old-previous owner MD of Renault UK!!!!
Anyway we have had an on-going intermittant problem with loss of engine power that then seems to recover and drive normally. This has proved extremely frustrating and difficult to diagnose. The car has been seen in Renault Poland-no problem identified, Renault Beckenham - EGR valve replaced at a cost of over 500 pounds. Problem not resolved and continued recurring intermitantly, Renault Guildford-no problem identified, Renault South Wales-no problem identified.
I think you can see from this that as the problem was intermitant we continued driving the car around. Problem got worse with loss of power so great that the car had to be returned by the AA (2 days after the garage in Wales said there was nothing wrong with it). AA suggested fuel sensors although no problem there. Eventually we took the car to Bosch in Croydon who were very helpful as the Renault garages appeared only to connect it to a computer and report there was no problem even though there blatantly was. Bosch said that the fuel pump and probably all of the injectors would need to be replaced and stated that there was a common problem with Nippon Denso who manufactured the fuel pump for our model. We then took the car to Renault Guildford and had discussions with Renault UK as we felt we should not have to pay for all of the costs. They stated that they woudl not pay anything as the car was by now 4 years old even though the problem had been on-going from when the car was 2 years old (mileage 63,000). Renault Guildford stated that Bosch were wrong and that only 1 injector needed to be replaced. This was done - costing over 900 pounds. Some 1,000 miles later problem returns!!! whilst we are in France. The car has now been returned by teh AA to Renault Guildford who are now saying that the fuel pump needs to be replaced but that this problem is UNRELATED!!!!!!! THey have quoted 5,400 pounds!!!!!
We have no confidence as they are also saying that the injectors may need to be replaced. Has anyone any advice as we do not know where to go next. Litigation is a word that springs to mind. Renault UK are of course saying that it is not their responsibility........
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Have a word with Vaughn Smith at AP Diesels in Egham Surrey
01784 437228. He is the guy I turn to with problems such as these and is very knowledgeable and very reasonable with his charges as he reconditions the injectors himself.
Andrew
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I'm afraid I have to report the same problem with my 3.0 dci 2004 model with 72000 miles. I am told that the high pressure fuel pump is knackered. It was even suggested to me that I had used biofuel, which is nonsense. Renault in Harrogate have quoted me an eye-watering £7900 for the repair which involves removal of the engine. I also have been on to Renault UK and am awaiting a response. I am not optimistic, but I shall be telling them that I shall be reporting this on any blogs I can find and advising against this vehicle. The other dci engines have known problems.
I am sure you are as depressed as me. The vehicle is effectively good for scrap now because of a fuel pump.
Edited by spsmith45 on 26/08/2008 at 17:07
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We have the same problem!!! I think assertive action against Renault UK is the answer and if this involves litigation so be it.
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We have a problem with the same model and year of manufacture. We have intermittent loss of power, shaking, juddering and occasionally failure to start properly. The Renault garage in Workington couldn't initially find any problem but then after having the car for diagnostic tests for several days have told us that the there is a problem with the fuel injection system which will cost us around £4500 to repair. Apprpximately £2500 for the fuel pump and related parts , including VAT plus an extra £2000 for labour. We are not impressed as the car has had numerous faults since we purchased it second hand as an ex-demonstrator from a dealer in Oxford. We will be writing to Renault UK and if they don't offer to contribute, we will consider suing them.
I think that all affected consumers should band together to take legal action if this is possible or at the very least exchange all relevant information. Collective pressure is often more successful.
Good luck!
MegaSNIPQUOTE for the person who ignored the message to snip & summarize when quoting other people's replies!
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 27/08/2008 at 21:55
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Hi
I wondered if you had had a positive result yet. I have a 04 reg Vel Satis 3.0dci( serviced by the book at main agents) which 'misses' badly when put under load. It has had new glow plugs and the injectors have been replaced with second hand ones. At £250+ each x 6 plus fitting, new ones were too expensive on a car 4 years old with 105k miles. After the injectors were replaced it ran fine for aprox 1000 miles but now the problem is back as before. I love the car but the new parts are so ridiculously expensive. Any thoughts? Any constructive comments would be welcome.
Regards
David
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David
As a very rough rule of thumb; if replacement injectors "cure" a problem - that then returns; I start wondering if hardened-steel frag from a failing HP pump is contaminating them.
Has anyone opened a fuel filter to check for frag?
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Hi all.
I have a 03 registered Vel Satis with the 3.0dci, automatic. I have had an intermitttent fault with the fuel injection light coming on, and the engine over-revving and failing to change gear. A Renault garage have replaced two sensors to no avail. They have now diagnosed turbo and intercooler failure, at £3.5k
Personally I am dubious about their diagnosis. The failure is intermittent, and does not just occur when the engine is load. Twice it has happened at idle in car parks, and once on starting. Other times have been on the road, and although I have managed to get home I am glad that my wife and children have not been withn me.
Does this sound like the same fault? AC's have as far as I can see onlyt hooked the car up to the computer, rather than driving it. Mid you, even if they did I suspect that unless they pushed it they wouldn't find anything untoward.
Any thoughts from anyone? Either way i will be replacing the car. Don't know what with - except that is unlikely to be a Renault turbo diesel!
demosthenes
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 19/11/2008 at 00:06
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Let us know how you got on as we are experiencing similar problems and face a large bill for repair. See earlier entry submitted by us today.
We would be happy to exchange information.
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Hi There appears to be three of us here who are/have experienced the same problem. We have only had telephone discussions with Renault UK to date and are about to put it in writing. It would be good to liaise and if any of us have joy(ha ha) then we could advise the others and if they refuse to take any responsibility for the faults then we could do a combined approach. It is probably better I would guess that we try independantlly initially but share feedback. Our car is presently off the road as we do not have the funds or desire to pay the astronomical amount quoted with the added anxiety that it still may not resolve the problem. We are concerned that the faulty fuel pump may also have damaged more of the injectors (1 replaced in May08 when we were advised that there was nothing wrong with the pump). If the injectors are damaged it would potentially be more money thrown down the drain. One other thought is small claims court and although it is only a small amount the publicity would be fairly bad. One could argue that the car sold was not fit for purpose......
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Majewska
We wrote to them a week ago to ask them to contribute to the £4,500 cost. They telephoned to say that they woud not contribute and said that they had also written to confirm this but we haven't received a leter yet. We are intending to sue them. You need to send a letter before action first to start the process off. Don't waste any more time on phone calls. You may wish to jointly claim against Renault UK and the dealer that you brought the car from. Depending on how much you are claiming, the small claims court would be a good option and we would recommend this. Her Majesty's Court Service (HMCS) has available lots of useful and easy to understand information; it's designed for non lawyers to use to make it accessible for lay clients.
If you would like to share information, call us on 07968 120410 before 9pm.
Rags
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Following my last message Renault UK agreed to contribute between 20 and 30% to the cost of repairs (£7900). I still think this is too much and have now moved the car to a specialist diesel man in York. I am hoping he will decide that less work is needed than Renault recommend. The high cost is due to the fact that Renault instruct their dealers to replace the common rail and injectors when the fuel pump goes. They reckon on £5000 in parts plus 28 hours of labour. They budget for 7 hours alone to get the engine out.
I should add that Renault waived the cost of diagnostics.
My phone message was taken up by a senior manager who was decent enough on th ephone, but said they could do no more than 30% off the bill for me.
Edited by spsmith45 on 06/09/2008 at 01:24
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Hi. Please phone to exchange information. Experts reports would be very useful. We could all agree to share the cost if need be.
Phone number 07968 120410.
Thanks.
Rags
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Hi
Add another disgruntled Renault customer to the ever growing list...
We have a
RENAULT ESPACE (J81) EXPRESSION T(165BHP) MPV 1998cc (22/04/2003) PETROL
and had to be relayed by the AA back from our holiday in Cornwall recently, due to loss of power with the error message "Fault Injection System Fault"
We took the car to our local garage who could not find the fault. They took it to the local Renault Dealership. They suggest the fault 'may' be the turbo, and are quoting GBP2.5K to fix. However they do not guarantee this will remedy the fault.
Hence the internet search which led me to this forum.
Couple of questions.
1. Has anyone had the turbo replaced and it has fixed the problem
2. Has Renault actually compensated anyoned for this fault which seems to be quite widespread.
3. Who is the best person to contact at Renault so I can annoy them straight away and pour out my frustrations ?
4. Failing all of the above, has anyone started legal proceedings ?
Thanks a lot
Richard
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Just replacing the turbo may cure the symptoms but not cure the fault ,EGR valve is a good starting place not to expensive or the old one can be cleaned .Turbos can go like any other part but on Renaults the problem normally stems from another fault if it is out of warranty then there are lots of places to buy a turbo cheaper than at renault or you repair them yourself if you have a little time to spare.
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It appears that I have just been diagnosed with the same problem by my local garage - I have an 03 Grand Espace 3.0Dci, 65K miles, and experience the loss of power on my way back from France on Saturday - there had been intermittent missfires before this. There diagnostics showed:
- an injector failing
- low fuel pressure
- possible pump fault.
They recommended that I contact a Renault dealer - it is booked in to Guildford on Friday. I have had this car for 6 weeks, and have a warranty, but it si limmited to £2K, and so the figres here are scaring me. I am planning to take it to Guildford and get there diagnosis (any comments on the staff there?) before deciding how to procede (I may investigate returning it to the dealer I bought it from - but I've already spent £1K on it).
The up shot is I may be interested in any class actyion you decide to take ...
Jon
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Jon
There are no limits on the law; have a read:-
www.honestjohn.co.uk/faq/faq.htm?id=43
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Sorry - the warranty lim,it I refer to is an aftermarket warranty - thanks for the link, it has clarified the poistion for me when I talk to the supplier after taking it to the Renault dealer ...
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I rate your chances of getting any large corporation to cough up about the same as the square root of zero. The position they will most likely take is to put the onus on you to prove there is a problem with these engines. How do you propose doing that? You may collect a list of disgruntled owners but they will most likely reply saying that there are thousands not giving any problems. You may get some goodwill but going in with all guns blazing threatening legal action will get you nowhere in my opinion.
My advice would be to try and get it fixed by a competent diesel specialist then sell the thing and buy a petrol Espace. Or a different make entirely.
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Hi
Please phone to exchange info. 07968 120410
Regards
Rags
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Dear All
Thanks for all your posts to my original message, and sorry for the delay in posting any news of my progress.
It may be helpful for you to know that I wrote to Renault in March, and then again in June (becuase I'd had no reply). I was pleasantly surprised with their (eventual) response in that Renault had increased their contribution to my repair bill from 20% to 60%. I accepted this thinking that it was probably the most I would ever get.
To get this compensation, I wrote to Renault's head office in Paris (in French). This is because I bought my Renault and then moved to France. I had quite a lot of help from my local French garage, as they reviewed the letters I drafted before I sent them.
If anyone would like to see the relevant text of the letters I sent, let me know.
Regards
Garrett
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Hallo England.
Yes I would so much like to see the relevant text of the letters you sent. My e-mail is Janne_dam@hotmail.com.
We have had all turbo parts changed and nothing has helped but the warning lamps are off 9 out of 10 times we start the car and drive for a short while.
The ERG valve is also changed twice. But still our car smokes and jump when it tryes to turn on the turbo. But I belive it pile up dirt and can't get enough air. Now I have contact to one more from Denmark who has the same problem. (we only got 4-6 cars all toghether in Denmark because of the price on cars in Denmark).
Hope you understand my school english - If I wrote Danish, well then you wouldn't understand at all.
Sad regards from a Renault Espace owner in Denmark.
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Hi from Denmark.
Sorry about my english.
I also got at Espace 3.0 dci. from 2003. We have turbo problems since okt 2007. Still not fixed. It has costed us 8000 euro.
when we accelrate it smoks and jumps because the turbo does net work.
I just want to sell the car but have lost 8000 in mekanic bills and 10000-15000 on the price of the car. We can only get 15000 back in danish car tax for it now. I bought it for 30000 1½ year ago.
So never buy a renault.
Good lock to all.
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Garret, I own a Renault Grande Espace 2.2dCi Privilege I?ve completed just over 64k
Last weekend I was driving the car to Bristol along the M5 when a warning message on the dash came up firstly as "fuel injection system faulty" this was accompanied by a loss of power followed by a "low oil pressure" then "low oil level", as I hurriedly cut across the traffic to reach the motorway hard shoulder, the ?STOP? light came on accompanied by a "charging circuit fault". After stopping on the hard shoulder the engine would not restart and would not even turn over (I suspect it was seized). Subsequently I needed to arrange recovery from the hard shoulder to my home address.
The Initial electronic diagnostic analysis by a local garage concluded the problem originated from at least one injector or possibly the Turbo which has subsequently caused damage to the associated piston and cam shaft damaging the crank and drawing oil through the turbo. Their initial analysis (before stripping the engine) is that a new engine will be required as the existing one will be uneconomical to repair. The estimated price of a new engine is I believe £7500!
I think you agree that this is a disappointing performance for a Renault diesel engine and I guess somewhat short of its anticipated life expectancy!! There's lots of evidence on this site to suggest this is not a one off fault due to poor maintenance i.e. the engine is inherently faulty. I have just written to Renault myself to complain and mentioned the following guidance on the Sale of Goods Act 1979 :
? In general, the onus is on all purchasers to prove the goods did not conform to contract (e.g. was inherently faulty) and should have reasonably lasted until this point in time - (there's lots of evidence on this web site to suggest the goods are inherently faulty).
? Wherever goods are bought they must "conform to contract". This means they must be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality (i.e. not inherently faulty at the time of sale).
? Goods are of satisfactory quality if they reach the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory, taking into account the price and any description. (57km in your case and 64k in mine for a diesel engine is not satisfactory quality!)
? Aspects of quality include fitness for purpose, freedom from minor defects, appearance and finish, durability and safety.
? It is the seller, not the manufacturer, who is responsible if goods do not conform to contract.
? For up to six years after purchase (five years from discovery in Scotland) purchasers can demand damages (which a court would equate to the cost of a repair or replacement).
? A purchaser who is a consumer, i.e. is not buying in the course of a business, can alternatively request a repair or replacement.
? If repair and replacement are not possible or too costly, then the consumer can seek a partial refund, if they have had some benefit from the good, or a full refund if the fault/s have meant they have enjoyed no benefit
? If a consumer chooses to request a repair or replacement, then for the first six months after purchase it will be for the retailer to prove the goods did conform to contract (e.g. were not inherently faulty)
? After six months and until the end of the six years, it is for the consumer to prove the lack of conformity
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I have a 2005 Modus dci 1.5 and have just been quoted £3766 to replace the entire fuel injection system.I am absolutely shocked and disgusted. Effectively this means giving up my car as the present value is less than this.I have no service history but a history of other faults that have been repared by the dealer at a considerable cost over the years (eg doors, windows, boot, sunroof electrical problems)
I have spoken to Renault Customer Service and am awaiting a reply but would appreciate any feedback or advice you can offer me in relation to your similar experiences with them in the past.
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You'd have to have proof of a full service history to get anywhere with Renault, I'm afraid.
You haven't said why the entire FI system needs replacing: it'll be worth getting a second opinion from an independent garage on what needs to be done and how much it will cost.
Edited by Avant on 08/08/2011 at 01:40
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