Hello,
Just had car serviced and mechanic says the fuel pump has a leak underneath: he said its diifficult to see where it is coming from. He said it needs to go to a specialist to be repaired and will cost a lot of money, at least £300. I feel a prat as I have just bought the car! Anyway, does anyone have an idea of how much it will cost: is pump replaced, or repaired?
Thanks in advance for any help and advice.
Paul
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Paul
They have a couple of favourite places to weep.
One is the throttle shaft on the top cover: [new top cover assy £50-60 from LSUK - 5 mins to fit] and the other is a hex plug on the lower front; [a new washer - pennies; also from LSUK.]
Clean the pump off; dust it with talc and see where it's coming from - a mirror may help.
Edited by Screwloose on 22/02/2008 at 18:46
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Thanks Screwloose, I'll have a look with a mirror. If it's not the throttle shaft, do you know what other places leak on this pump? I've never had a diesel before, so very ignorant.
thanks
Paul
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Lucas or Bosch pump? The leak patterns are very different (Bosch rotaries don't usually leak at all).
659.
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Thanks 659. I don't know what the make is, so I will have to look.
Thanks
Paul
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One is the throttle shaft on the top cover: [new top cover assy £50-60 from LSUK - 5 mins to fit]
Ouch, inflation hurts - mine cost only half that when I had to replace the top cover on my '91 405GLD back around 1995, at 150K miles. From an absolute diesel wizard - Alan Adams, in Elgin. Sold off his business round about 2001, couldn't be bothered with diesel going electronic.
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Looking at some old applications notes I have for the TUD5, I fear that you may indeed have a Lucas pump (Bosch were fitted '97 onwards).
The fuel control shaft seal in the top cover is indeed the favourite Lucas rotary leak point as Screwloose suggests, but another equally common one is the crimp around the fuel shutoff solenoid. This problem is easily fixed by changing the solenoid, but observe scrupulous cleanliness if you take it out (procedure given on request). A little leaking diesel will go a very long way on a warm pump and will always end up underneath.
It's only VAG who have yet to understand the action of gravity on liquids (rainwater).
659.
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Thanks 659. When I realised that Lucas may be involved I thought oh dear! In daylight I will have a good look and try to see where the leak originates from. If it's the solenoid then I may need your instructions.
Paul
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The leak is not from the throttle cable area, that's quite dry. Very difficult to see underneath the pump, with the mirror - pump is very close to radiator. The pipes that connect to the pump, seem to be damp. But nothing seems to be leaking in this area.
There is an oil leak somewhere inside the cam cover, that is the next thing to look at!
Paul
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Paul, I'll assume you have the Lucas pump. This installation is quite "tight" and one problem which crops up is leakage of the low pressure flexible hoses. The flow and return hoses from the pump can fret on the cylinder head and leak if not carefully routed, and the injector spill hoses also go hard and leak. Replacement is cheap and easy. Don't forget to check the rubber "tit" on No 4 injector. (For some inexplicable reason, PSA number the engine cylinders backwards).
If you have oil in the cambelt cover (the cam cover will always hopefully be oily) the engine may just be overfilled. I have found with these engines if you fill the sump to the upper notch on the dipstick, they always leak oil. Keep the sump 3/4 full and they are generally oil tight.
I think PSA got carried away by extended service intervals and tried to increase the oil level in the engine without a proper assessment of what might happen. My partner bought a 106D ('98 with a Bosch pump) with 9k miles on the clock and as bought, it leaked to the point of moistening the cambelt. Before diving in too deeply, I did the "car park" test, which involves looking at other 106 diesels in car parks to see if the engines were oily around the crank pulley. It's best not to get caught. Nearly all were oily - hence my investigation. The car has now done 136k miles (without any engine or fuel system attention other than routine maintenance) and is completely oil tight.
659.
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Re oil levels.
We run our 1.4 diesel 106 dipstick at 3/4 full.
ABove that it chucks oil into the air filter.
Yes: it's a known deisgn fault. see HJ guide...
(BL did that with early 1800cc MGBs/BMC1800s but got engine failure due to cavitation in oil pumps)
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Thanks 659 and madf.
I see the flexible hoses, and will look at the other possibilities tomorrow in day light. Interesting about the oil levels. It's was serviced yesterday and it's certainly leaking today, no mistake. Looking up from underneath, I can various pulleys etc. and the oils coming down from that area. Making me think about crankshaft, camshaft or head gasket problems.
This is a silly question. I thought the engine was supposed to be oil tight, so where does the oil leak from when "over filled"? I must get a Haynes, so I can get used to this beast.
Paul
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If the oil level in an engine is too high the crankase "blow by" contains excessive oil vapour. The normal crankcase ventilation system contains an oil trap which returns most of the oil to the sump and allows gases to be vented to the air cleaner box or other part of the intake system.
When there is excessive oil mist in the crankase, it gets blown past the seals - usually the lower ones at each end of the crankshaft. In my covert searches, I found 106Ds which were oily at the flywheel end as well (more commonly) as the pulley end of the engine.
If your engine is overfull with oil, just place a clean (if you want to save the oil for topping up) vessel under the filter and unscrew it. There is no need to take it right off - you might need to let the engine refill it for you a couple of times.
659.
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Thanks 659 for the information. I will let some of the oil out and see if the leak stops: it's definitely from the pulleys end - don't like thought of an oil leak at flywheel end, might wreck clutch.
One final question is that the cam belt was changed very recently, will oil getting on it ruin it?
Thanks
Paul
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Oil on a cambelt is bad news and should be avoided at all costs. On the TUD5 engine you can remove the upper cover very easily (3 fixing points) for an inspection. In my experience, the leak has to get pretty bad and be there for quite a while before the belt gets wet.
Unofficially, the belt makers do consider oil resistance in their material specification and the TUD5 has one of the best camshaft drive belt installations designed - 21 tooth crank wheel and INA idler & tensioner with metal wheels and sealed bearings - not shielded. Don't take any unreasonable risks though, a belt failure will write off the engine.
If you have definitely "fixed" the leak, dry carefully the inside of the top cover and run it for a few hundred miles - then look again. I did this on the 9k mile engine and everything dried out completely. I left the OE belt in place until I changed it (conservatively) at 50k miles.
659.
OE = Original Equipment.
Edited by 659FBE on 24/02/2008 at 11:39
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I'll get the upper cover off and have a look.
Thanks for all the help and advice.
Paul
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Would this problem make the car difficult to start? I have a leaking fuel pump but have not located the source yet, but the car will not start.
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