Just thought I'd share our exprience of our C-Max bought in Nov. 06 with only 13k on clock.
Bought the car from one of the {edit by DD} large car supermarkets and was initially pleased with the car. After a week or so the wife said it was driving "like it had the hand brake on" during that day but was ok now. Put that down to her not liking the 6 speed box/woman driver.
Week later it did it to me....severe power loss but no engine management or warnings shown. Turned it off then back on and working fine but getting suspicious.
Week later wife rang me early at work to say it wouldn't start. She tried leaving it - nothing. Said car super market picked car up and fitted a new EGR valve. Picked it up. All ok.
5 days later major loss of power again just as I pulled out onto a dual carraigeway. Took it staright back to said super market to be told " nothing wrong, just needs some fuel in it " ( fuel light came on, on way there-loads still in) and the problem was air bubbles from the return diesel pipe hitting the low lying fuel and these bubbles were bieng sent to the engine hence the loss of power.( pink fluffy dice)
I responded by saying that if the problem returned I wanted it straight to Ford.
4th jan 07, just setting of towards the motor way with wife and 2 year old lad in the back, major loss of power AGAIN!!!!!! This time turning it of did nothing so we all headed straight back down to said car super market to confront the workshop manager about my "bubbles" seeing as the car hadover half a tank in it. The car showed no warnings at all but registered a " Fuel regulation" code.
After some heated words with him and his boss they finally booked it in with the local Ford Dealer. Ford found some metal filings in the filter but said it didn't warrant any thing more than a software upgrade. Now waiting to hear from supermarket.................I'll return with the next chapter soon................beware C-Max owners
{Car supermarket location removed as it accounts to naming / shaming, and swearing also removed - DD}
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I don't mean to scaremonger, but metal filings in the fuel filter are a very very serious sign -- it means metal has come from somewhere and the finer filings could be merrily circulating through the high-pressure diesel pump and the fuel rail.
These could easily abrade the working faces in the fuel pump and wreck it -- meaning a bill of several thousand quid to replace the entire injection system.
Either something has failed prematurely (maybe the car has had a tankful of petrol at some point, as this can cause rapid fuel pump wear) or some kind of foreign matter has got into the injection system.
If you can get proof of metal in the fuelling system from the Ford dealer, and you can prove (with receipts) that you have NOT put petrol in it, I would push to have the entire fuelling system replaced under warranty.
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Sorry, but as noted above the metal filings in the filter means fuel system is very likely critically damaged. You are likely looking at new pump, injectors, other bits and pieces plus labour; could be £2k+ to fix it.
Going on past history of postings on here then the seller and/or Ford will try to pin the blame on you for 'misfuelling' by putting petrol in the tank (or say a previous owner has done it) and refuse to repair under warranty. Try to find your old filling station receipts!
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Spoke to the Workshop manager at Nearby ( sorry editor) supermarket who detailed the report from Ford. They have basically followed Ford procedure with this type of fault and dicected the fuel filter and photographed the insides. The image is then sent to Ford big boys who decide on how much metal is in the filter. If the amount of metal is minimal then they basically do nothing. No flush out no replacements except the filter. Apparently our car doesn't have enough metal in the system (crazy or what!) to warrant any more than a software update.
The car supermarket say they have fulfilled their legal obligation to repair the car and we have no rights to ask for a refund. We're writing a formal letter to them saying if this problem returns then we will expect a refund.
Thanks for the replies but we usaully buy fuel cash however I will from now on keep the reciepts for future use.
Any more advise greatly appreciated.
The story goes on
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If you haven't seen the Ford report I would **insist** on getting a copy of the report so you can see for yourself the findings, and have them independently checked by a third-party diesel specialist. It's your car and you should have that report.
It's very unlikely the metal got into the fuel system externally (i.e. through the filler).
You're right to send a formal letter. If it happens again (and if it does happen again, it should happen quickly) the dealer has NOT repaired the car and you can escalate the process.
Good luck
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They have basically followedFord procedure with this type of fault and dicected the fuel filter and photographed the insides. The image is then sent to Ford big boys who decide on how much metal is in the filter. If the amount of metal is minimal then they basically do nothing. No flush out no replacements except the filter. Apparently our car doesn't have enough metal in the system (crazy or what!) to warrant any more than a software update.
This sounds strange. I think it would be difficult to tell how much metal is in the filter just from a photograph...Definitely sounds like they want to dodge liability until outside of warranty when they can hit you with the full repair bill.
If you end up going along with this then I would get all the info (inc. photo) in hard copy and keep it. Also ask for the old filter complete with metal. I assume that the vehicle is under warranty so you might want to 'backdate' a claim at some future date.
A software update will not put the metal swarf back where it came from....
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"found some metal filings in the filter"
IMHO, time to move it on again quickly and buy either a *new* common rail diesel, or a *used* petrol.
I suspect some common rail diesel used cars have been mis-fueled with petrol and then moved on when the owner realises the implications (IMHO) of course.
Consider, Whats the *natural reaction* after accidentally mis-fueling with petrol and the manufacturers Dealer says it needs a whole new injection system at circa £2,500 ? Cough up the cash? or just drain the tank for a few quid then part exchange it?
IMHO Second hand common rail diesels are not worth the risk, if I were in this position for a used car I would only buy petrol.
I wonder what these folk will do?
( scroll down for comments) and apologies to anyone who has already seen this.
www.simong.org/index.php?p=902
All opinion of course and no evidence from me to back this up. But human nature being what it is.........
Or am I just a little paranoid ? :)
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Interesting thread. I'm passing my Fabia vRS (diesel) over to SWMBO whose petrol Picanto goes back to the lease company. I will be filling it up at the weekends which will easily last her the 300 miles she does each week just to make sure it is diesel that goes in.
I'm reverting back to a company car and the policy is to buy nearly new. So I'll be off to Trade Sales or touting around local dealers to buy the best I can for the cash available,. We've bought the last 3 company cars this way and so far haven't had any nast surprises. Trouble is most of the diesels especially under 12 months old look to be ex-rental so it certainly makes me now think if the car has ever been wrongly fuelled.
I'm considering a 12 month old Accord Tourer CDTi or ex demo Avensis 180 but for roughly the same money I can squeeze a deal on a brand new Octavia vRS Estate. Certainly making me think a bit as it is my company and a bill for £2,500 isn't in the business plan this year or ever!
I like the idea of keeping all the fuel receipts as perhaps common rail diesels will one day in the future like certain antiques be worth more because of their known provenance.
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NeilS
Sadly; keeping the receipts would prove nothing. If you mis-fuel it, you won't get far and then you'll still have to fill it with diesel after it's been drained; so you'll still have a complete, equally-spaced, set of diesel receipts.
You won't be leaving that petrol one in amongst them - will you?
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"I will be filling it up at the weekends which will easily last her the 300 miles she does each week just to make sure it is diesel that goes in."
I go further than that with our Diesel (common rail) van Neil. It did not come with a locking fuel cap as standard so I bought one. Of course this then had a different key to the rest of the car. It gave me an idea,
I decided to keep the key with me rather than have it on the vans key ring.
I refuel it weekly and as a full tank lasts a couple of weeks, no problem of it running out.
But no one else can access the fuel tank.........
Call me a control freak, but its *my* van :)
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From Ford, or rather the Ford dealer's, point of view if the hold the opnion that misfuelling has caused the damage that they will understandably be reluctant to repair under warranty however as I have said before on here if the car is within manufactuers warranty by age, mileage and service schedule then it is up to the dealer/manufacturer to prove misfueling as opposed to the owner having to prove it was not misfuelled.
However either way and whatever the cause the OP has only had the car at most two months and has experienced a a couple of worrying incidents leading to a fault being acknowledged, on this basis I believe he should be able to either insist that the applicable parts are replaced or reject the car and ask for a full refund.
Being forceful in this regard may result in the supermarket being, in turn forceful with the Ford dealer leading to a comprehensive overhaul of the fuel system or otherwise cutting their losses and providing a refund.
Perhaps a strong though polite letter to the manager of the supermarket site mentioning the Consumers Assoc etc.
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Is it me, or do these diesel c-max's seem to be having lots of problems....?
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If I were you I would reject the car, you will always wonder when it will go wrong again.
I had a nice trip out in my Passat to Pride Park this afternoon, very nice.
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>>I had a nice trip out in my Passat to Pride Park this afternoon, very nice.
Jolly good - I just hope you aren't one of those inconsiderate fanatic types who litter Wilmorton with their car while the sheep are gamboling on the grass in Pride Park!!
Number_Cruncher
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Is it me, or do these diesel c-max's seem to be having lots of problems....?
From what I've read on the various Ford forums the early model diesel C-Max's had quite a few teething problems.
The PSA developed engines were a new design, and the EGR valve in particular could cause a lot of grief - low MPG or even sudden loss of power.
Models from 2005 on seem much better, as most of the parts that caused trouble have been revised.
My 2006 C-Max has the older Ford developed 1.8 Lynx Duratorq engine, and these - though less refined - allegedly have far fewer problems.
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My 2006 C-Max has the older Ford developed 1.8 Lynx Duratorq engine, and these - though less refined - allegedly have far fewer problems.
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I am not sure it is less refined, although a much older design mechanically the CR injected 1.8 is very refined, I did nearly 1500 miles in a 1.6 C-Max a year or so ago and found it felt ever so slightly harsh compared to my Mondeo and Mk1 Foci (with the 18 engine) that I have driven.
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